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Old 23-10-2015, 20:59   #61
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Originally Posted by darylat8750 View Post
The issue is that other parts of the valve train besides the valves and valve seats wear also.

1. My '66 Triumph opened up so bad that I had to adjust valves after every race. Always needed to be closed a little. It was the cam followers that wore so bad that they needed to be replaced every season. (It wasn't the surface on the cam that wore, but the interface between the lifter and the push rods.)

2. '70 Corvette with after market cam and solid lifters intake valves would usually get looser (but not always) and the exhaust valves usually got tighter.

These examples had very aggressive cam profiles but I had several '80s street bikes that could "go either way".
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Yep, '66 T120R
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I had a 67 Tiger, a 68 Bonneville, and a Trident. Love those bikes.
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Thread drift to English bikes.... 67 tr6c track bike converted to streetracker after racing, and a 73 Trident that was unrestored original for me.

Let's post pictures .... Yeah thread drift. I got pics......
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Oh man, I had a Triumph Tiger Cub when I was a kid then I had a BSA 650 twin carb and my last bike was a 79 Triumph 750 twin.
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63 TR6 Trophy was my first bike. Still in my dad's garage.

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Oh well...since we're going there, might as well take the plunge...

1965 Bonneville 750 big bore, Sifton cam, Redline frame.

1969 Factory Harley KRTT. That thing was like riding a Freight Train compared to the Triumph.
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Old 23-10-2015, 21:01   #62
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

Engines 101 - The BIGGEST & BEST collection of M25 Series Universal Engine Information on the Internet, plus some M35, too

Diesel Engine - c34.org
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Old 24-10-2015, 06:33   #63
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Somebody name just 1 piston engine in this whole wide world with poppet valves that gets more valve clearance when the valve faces and seats wear.
I missed the party but DEFINITELY enjoyed the pictures!

I think there's been plenty of explanations for how clearances get bigger...

Here's something that routinely did that very thing...
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Old 24-10-2015, 08:52   #64
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

Good memories here. Don't own a car or bike now.
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Old 24-10-2015, 08:55   #65
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

Beautiful...Makes me wonder why we all ended up here.
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Old 24-10-2015, 09:44   #66
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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I think there's been plenty of explanations for how clearances get bigger...

...

Again, really? If that is true I'd say not that many here understand how an engine works. For example, one guy here who says he knows all this stuff, does not even know what a valve tip is but that you can get carbon on it... If you think that when a valve and seat wears you get more valve clearance you don't understand either.
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Old 24-10-2015, 10:04   #67
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Beautiful...Makes me wonder why we all ended up here.
Easy:

Good taste!
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Old 24-10-2015, 10:13   #68
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

I think what is being observed is just 10% of what's going on here. It's possible that wear on the camshaft, holders, or followers can cause an increase. When there is wear to a valve or valve seat, clearance decreases, though if there's a groove worn in the seat the valves can settle in a variety of orientations that make measuring yield inconsistent results. Though I have never seen it, I have heard of valves stretching. Not sure how that works, but I guess I am saying that there are hundreds of possible reasons for an engine to not run, and hundreds of opinions as well. Unfortunately, there's no amount of remotely expressed opinions that will carry as much weight as the opinion of someone with years of experience in the physical presence of the malfunctioning engine.

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Old 24-10-2015, 10:23   #69
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Originally Posted by HappyMdRSailor View Post
I missed the party but DEFINITELY enjoyed the pictures!

I think there's been plenty of explanations for how clearances get bigger...

Here's something that routinely did that very thing...
Great looking TR3. days of yore.
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Old 24-10-2015, 12:35   #70
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Again, really? If that is true I'd say not that many here understand how an engine works. For example, one guy here who says he knows all this stuff, does not even know what a valve tip is but that you can get carbon on it... If you think that when a valve and seat wears you get more valve clearance you don't understand either.

I don't think anyone is saying when a seat wears clearances increase. Both myself and others have agreed with you that in that case clearances decrease.

Both myself and others have pointed out there are several other areas of wear in a valve train that increase clearance.

I used the phrase "valve stem tip" in my posts to indicate the part of the valve stem that touches the rocker. And further stated that build-up there could decrease clearance. Though as I said have never seen build-up there. I have seen buidup everywhere else on a valve, stem and head both sides.

You used the term "valve tip". So I asked what is a valve tip to try to get some clarification for what part of a valve is the valve tip in your opinion.

Typically your responses seem to indicate you are not reading the posts very thoroughly.

What part of a valve do you consider the tip?
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Old 24-10-2015, 12:54   #71
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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I don't think anyone is saying when a seat wears clearances increase. Both myself and others have agreed with you that in that case clearances decrease.

Both myself and others have pointed out there are several other areas of wear in a valve train that increase clearance.

I used the phrase "valve stem tip" in my posts to indicate the part of the valve stem that touches the rocker. And further stated that build-up there could decrease clearance. Though as I said have never seen build-up there. I have seen buidup everywhere else on a valve, stem and head both sides.

You used the term "valve tip". So I asked what is a valve tip to try to get some clarification for what part of a valve is the valve tip in your opinion.

Typically your responses seem to indicate you are not reading the posts very thoroughly.

What part of a valve do you consider the tip?
Contrary to his post a valve seat and face wearing? I would be more inclines to think of a carbon buildup on them. No more hours than the OP said I'd only guess he just didn't hear it before?
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Old 24-10-2015, 13:21   #72
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

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Contrary to his post a valve seat and face wearing? I would be more inclines to think of a carbon buildup on them. No more hours than the OP said I'd only guess he just didn't hear it before?
I agree. The OP needed an oil change and maybe was even low on oil. Both make for an extra noisy top side of engine. And increase wear on rockers, rocker shafts, valve stem tips, etc. Left unattended the eventual result would be increased valve lash. In fact carbon builup on the seat or valve face, or even on the stem sides would as well.
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Old 24-10-2015, 13:28   #73
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

Valves do stretch under the right conditions, those being high performance cams demanding very high spring tension to prevent valve float, that along with high temps and they do stretch. Many valves have been pulled in half, often the valve head is a separate piece welded to the stem. Valves if they are floating, the piston head can hit the valve busting the head off too, known as "swallowing a valve", used to use SS valves on budget engine builds as they were one piece valves, and titanium ones on better builds, great thing about Ti valves was if you also used Ti hardware, retainers and keepers, they were so light that almost always stock valve springs was all that was needed to prevent float at even pretty high RPM due to the lower inertia of the lighter valve.
None of this has squat to do with a Marine Diesel, just continuing the engine conversation is all


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Old 24-10-2015, 14:03   #74
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

I put Titanium valves and rockers in the race bike above.

It was the "c" engine with the light flywheel. Had to make sure the valves remained under control when I chose the wrong size rear sprocket for a track. That way I could finish the race at well above the rpm limits and not leave parts on the track. Ran it four seasons without a teardown.
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Old 24-10-2015, 14:51   #75
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Re: Engine making "clackity clack" noises

Nascar sprint cup engines that turn 9500 rpm are using flat tappets. The idle speed is up around 2,000 or so to keep them from digging into the cam. They use very fancy coatings on the parts to make it work at those rpms.
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