Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 14-05-2013, 17:24   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Alameda, CA
Boat: C&C Newport 41
Posts: 586
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

main point... sitting on the hard for multiple years does NOT warrant the assumption / expectation that the motor is trashed.

3 quick tests / indicators...

1. check the oil
2. check / smell the transmission oil
3. try to turn the motor

This is by no means a comprehensive assessment but if you are 0, 1, 2 0r 3 for 3 at the end you will have a good sense of what the next step(s) will be.

gl.

-steve
__________________

__________________
ssanzone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:39   #17
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
Dude; My reading comprehension is fine, thank you. The original post hasn't changed since the first time I read it.

I find your suggestion and your emphasizing of that suggestion not to have a qualified marine mechanic to inspect the engine of a boat that a person is considering purchasing pretty strange. It's like suggesting that a potential buyer not get a home inspection or a boat surveyed. Having a pro check the engine is pretty cheap compared to the cost of a replacement engine. The suggestions people posted are OK as far as they go, but one would have to be at least a little familiar with diesel engine mechanics to perform them. Without a mechanics diagnosis, the OP could well trash an engine that could be repaired for a few hundred dollars. In any event the suggestion to have a mechanic check the engine (I'm not the only person who suggested it) is every bit as valid as your contention that it would be a waste of money.

As for your off topic contention that marine professionals post on this forum without identifying their status as professionals just to scare people into hiring professionals, I find it just as bizarre or more so than your insistence that hiring a mechanic is a waste of money. I am not a marine professional, just someone with a lot of real life experience with a genuine concern for someone who would ask a sincere question on a web forum.
I didn't mean to say that you should never hire a professional mechanic. If that's what you thought I meant then I wasn't clear. Here's what I believe. Just because an engine hasn't run for 3 years does not mean it won't run with a little forethought in preparing it to start. You don't need a mechanic to determine whether or not it will or won't start. You can do the precautionary things first and then try to start it. If it doesn't start then do some troubleshooting and if it still doesn't start then find a good reputable mechanic.

My personal opinion is that if you start with "find a mechanic" you are setting yourself up for economic heartache especially if you ever need to troubleshoot your own engine.
__________________

__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:48   #18
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bash View Post
You may want to reread the OP more closely. He asks whether the engine is trashed, and whether whether he should write it off. Given those questions, he seems to be getting some good advice. Nobody needs to hire a trained professional to determine whether an engine is seized or whether it will run.

The OP clearly states that he knows that the boat will require a lot of labor, and seems willing to do so given the low asking price of the boat. That being the case, the bulk of the advice he's receiving is well considered.

*****

Zboss, it's good to understand that there are a number forum members who work within the marine industry and who get involved in these threads. Most, but not all identify themselves as having a commercial involvement. Some, but not all, will give you the impression that disaster looms any time a non-professional grabs a wrench near a boat. Those fellows are best ignored, of course. The tricky part is figuring out what advice to heed. For my part, over the years I've found SkiprJohn to be a font of wisdom.
Thanks Bash. I have to admit I do make mistakes from time to time and I'm hoping that folks understand that I am not a professional expert but just an experienced sailor.

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:49   #19
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
........... My personal opinion is that if you start with "find a mechanic" you are setting yourself up for economic heartache especially if you ever need to troubleshoot your own engine.
In my line of work before I retired (electronics/electrical), I had the opportunity many times to observe and correct attempts by unqualified people to do their own repairs. Often a simple repair was turned into a major repair. I remember a movie projector (I worked for a school system) that was delivered to our shop as a box of parts after a school principal attempted to repair it himself. And another principal who installed a cut off switch on his intercom speaker with the intention of turning the system off in his own office but instead it turned off the entire school.

You have to know your limits.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:49   #20
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Hey Zboss,
What kind of boat is it? Might be worth a try to see if other forum members have experience with it.
kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:51   #21
Registered User
 
Watercolor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montpelier, VT
Boat: On the hard for now - 2 dinghies
Posts: 198
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

If the condition of the boat is poor, there's no reason to think the engine is OK. On the other hand it could be the one think the owner did consider important.

The key is will the owner or his agent try and start the engine. Neither you or a mechanic should go through the process of starting it. It's the owners boat and responsibility. If you or your mechanic try and start it and something fails who's responsible.

It sounds like this is an "AS IS" boat that can be had for a good price. If the owner or agent won't start it consider it a total loss in your negotiations. If you can get a good diesel mechanic to look it over and see if you can turn it over manually. Get an idea what a rebuild would cost and a new motor. The make your "LOW BALL" offer. If the engine just needs some TLC then you win the prize.
__________________
Watercolor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 17:56   #22
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watercolor View Post
If the condition of the boat is poor, there's no reason to think the engine is OK. On the other hand it could be the one think the owner did consider important.

The key is will the owner or his agent try and start the engine. Neither you or a mechanic should go through the process of starting it. It's the owners boat and responsibility. If you or your mechanic try and start it and something fails who's responsible.

It sounds like this is an "AS IS" boat that can be had for a good price. If the owner or agent won't start it consider it a total loss in your negotiations. If you can get a good diesel mechanic to look it over and see if you can turn it over manually. Get an idea what a rebuild would cost and a new motor. The make your "LOW BALL" offer. If the engine just needs some TLC then you win the prize.
Good advice!
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 18:06   #23
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,337
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I just took "Diesel 1" at Annapolis School of Seamanship, so we learned all this and more on about 4 makes of engine. A very informative part was on winterizing and the mistakes that are commonly made in the winterization process, which can result in micro-fractures in several areas.

However, I don't really feel qualified to judge the quality of an engine that has not been run in so long. I wonder, did someone open a seacock and let the anti-freeze out? Is the regulator fried? What oil was previously used?

I'm betting all the hoses will need to be replace due to dry rot.

What happens to the injectors when they are not used? Do they rust?
There is better than an 80% chance that the engine will run just like it did 3 years ago.

When you put the new impeller in, smear a bit of grease or dish soap on it to protect it until it gets wet.

Engine hoses will not rot in 3 years--more like 15-20.

If they didn't flush the engine before they stored it, your exhaust injection elbow may have corroded through, but that's pretty easy to replace.

Your injectors have sat in an oil bath for 3 years, so they should be fine.

The batteries will likely be murdered, but the regulator is solid state, and should be fine.

If they drained the antifreeze, that's OK--if they replaced it with water in a cold climate, that's not OK.

I'm also in the camp that says you should learn to fix your own diesel--there are no mechanics out on the blue ocean.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 18:10   #24
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,376
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

It depends on your capability. Mechanics are just people. Some are great and some are just plain stupid. One might stand there at 90 bucks an hour and say "well , the crank turned a little...let's just start it up" not knowing if the cylinders have a light coat of rust or not. Another might insist on removing the injectors, ascertaining if any rust exists on them and spraying the cylinders to avoid ring damage when it's started. He wont be around when you finally figure out that the rings are toat... I guess I'm saying "hiring a mechanic " doesnt necessarily solve your problems. It took 3 mechanics and many $'s in the caribe to find one who really knew what was wrong with my Yanmar. The first two were trying all the things I already knew how to try.... just sayin'....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 18:26   #25
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watercolor View Post
............The key is will the owner or his agent try and start the engine. Neither you or a mechanic should go through the process of starting it. It's the owners boat and responsibility. If you or your mechanic try and start it and something fails who's responsible. .............
I think anyone who has ever had a boat surveyed or sea trialed has started the engine with or without the owner present. Of course permission was granted for the starting or sea trial. I think it would have to be gross negligence for the potential buyer to be responsible for a malfunction.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 18:52   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: sydney, australia
Boat: 38 roberts ketch
Posts: 1,021
Images: 3
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

last time i asked, i was quoted $20000 to fit a new yanmar 3ym30 - so - caveat emptor buddy (before you jump on my a... , yes i could do it for about half that and in the end spent less than $1000 fixing my old engine - but that was the figure quoted to get a new engine fitted - taking into account the cost of a new eng., and all the ancillaries and labour involved in mounting it etc, sounds about right - prbably a bit more 3 years on) you're not just flipping a coin on this item, it's a bit of cash in the air.
__________________
charliehows is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 19:14   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Lake Michigan
Posts: 86
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

I say get rid of the engine and install new electric motor and solar.
__________________
Max Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 19:48   #28
Registered User
 
Watercolor's Avatar

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Montpelier, VT
Boat: On the hard for now - 2 dinghies
Posts: 198
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Rwidman - We've bought quite a few sailboats with diesels, and we always had the owner/agent start the engine, before we even hired a surveyor. We checked out the sails, decks, etc. before hand. But I would never start the engine without the owner/agent their.

I never hired a surveyor before I did my own initial survey first.

However, I was picking up on Zboss's comment, the reason for this thread, when he said: "I know this is a broad subject but it appear that I may be able to get the boat for a steal, one that requires lots of labor, but still a good deal. I want to know if I would need to write-off the engine."

That's why I tried to couch my statement to reflect the "AS IS" concept. It didn't sound like the owner or agent wanted to start it. And his engine question was very specific to the agents statement that it hadn't been run in 3 years.

Zboss - it could be a winner, but either way Good Luck and Fair winds.
__________________
Watercolor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 14-05-2013, 19:57   #29
Registered User
 
Rhapsody-NS27's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: VA, boat: Deale, MD
Boat: 1981 Nor'sea 27
Posts: 1,409
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by zboss View Post
I just took "Diesel 1" at Annapolis School of Seamanship, so we learned all this and more on about 4 makes of engine. A very informative part was on winterizing and the mistakes that are commonly made in the winterization process, which can result in micro-fractures in several areas.

Thanks for the info. I've actually been thinking of finding this type of class to learn more about engines.
__________________
Daniel - Rhapsody Blog,
“A sailor’s joys are as simple as a child’s.” — Bernard Moitessier
"I don't need therapy, I just need my boat"
Rhapsody-NS27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-05-2013, 04:55   #30
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Engine has not been run in three years

Quote:
Originally Posted by Watercolor View Post
................. It didn't sound like the owner or agent wanted to start it. ..
If the owner or agent refuses to let the engine be run, one has to assume that it is a total loss, at least in offering to buy the boat.

It appears that I have a different outlook on boats than many folks here. I had three previous, progressively larger boats before I purchased HIGH COTTON, but when considering this (and every) purchase, I looked for a nice boat, turn key, ready to use, not a project boat. I enjoy working on my boat to improve it, but my main reason for having a boat is to go boating, even though sometimes it's just a weekend at the marina.

I picked out what I wanted, called the broker, he arranged for the owner to show it to me, my wife and I liked it, we made an offer, had a survey and sea trial, and completed the purchase. I have no intention of buying another boat (I did buy a dinghy).

If the owner had refused to start the engine or allow a survey or sea trial, that would have been the end right there. I would have walked.
__________________

__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
engine

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Powerboat Circumnavigation Possible ? EricGrab Powered Boats 111 11-05-2016 20:46
Engine Sitting for Almost 2 Years - Bad ? andreas.mehlin Engines and Propulsion Systems 6 18-01-2012 11:44
Engine Wouldn't Quit MikeTurner Engines and Propulsion Systems 5 14-01-2012 23:55
Diesel Engine Not Started in Five Years - Pre-Start Procedure ? westsailwill Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 23-07-2011 13:26
Engine Vibrating Violently when Shifting to Neutral Heikki Engines and Propulsion Systems 24 13-07-2011 08:07



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:35.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.