Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-04-2008, 16:23   #1
Registered User
 
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 520
Images: 22
Engine controls install inside or outside ?

Got plenty of spare cable from the engine to the control unit (tacho/ignition/kill switch/etc). But, where to install the thing ?

Inside - we have more room inside to put it, less holes in the cockpit, out of the weather, can see while working on the motor. Would then have to install a kill switch in the cockpit. More secure.

Outside - Easier access while steering, can see lights, hear alarms (oil pressure/overheating), can do a quick restart, etc.

I looked at dozens of photos of other yachts that we had from when we went shopping and it is close to 50/50 inside/outside.

Anybody got some thoughts ?
__________________

__________________
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 17:45   #2
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colombo
Posts: 1,059
By "control unit" I am assuming you mean the panel.

My recommendation is anything electrical that can go under cover on a sail boat should go under cover out of the way of UV and rain/spray, its life will certainly be improved and sure to be fewer problems with it. We specified our panel to go inside the boat (is about 1.5m in from the companionway hatch) and never anticipated nor found that to be a problem in any way.

Our engine stop is also inside the boat beside the panel, even though it is a mechanical cable operated one (so no potential moisture versus electricity problem) and again was not anticipated nor found to be a problem. I am not sure why it would need to go out in the cockpit?
__________________

__________________
MidLandOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 17:56   #3
Registered User
 
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 520
Images: 22
Yes, it is the control panel.

Inside is our vote at the moment. The vessel had the control panel on near the helm when we bought it, but only 30% of the items on it worked and a key had broken off in the switch.

The remote kill switch is just because I am a control freak. A bluetooth connection between engine & mobile phone is much anticipated
__________________
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 18:09   #4
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: North Carolina
Boat: 44 footer
Posts: 923
I like a set both inside and outside, with duplicate senders for oil and water temp.

An engine stop would ideally be at the helm, or at least in reach of the companionway. When something goes wrong, there needs to be someone at the helm to keep her in the channel, if you are single handing it means you have to go investigate.

When I've had impellers go... my "dashboard" by the helm said everything was fine (worn gauges) but on my 30 minute check to poke my head in the engine room there was steam. A cutoff behind the engine shut her down, and a holler up to the guy at the wheel made it known. Duplicate gauges, and senders trend together until one breaks. By doing a physical check of a head down the hatch and checking out engine and its panel you'll catch a lot of problems. Reaching in and laying a hand on a coolant tank, heat exchanger or anything else of importance every time will alert you if she's happy or not.

Same deal when you lose reverse, or an engine gets stuck in forward... If you have to leave the helm and your single handing theres no one to fend off till you get back up the hatch. You could probably put one just inside the companionway on one side or the other and be close enough to be "at the helm."

50 feet to the dock is when you find out all about transmission issues, with crew they don't always have to be messy... but single handing it takes a little while to notice she's stuck in forward after walking back to get the stern lines on. I bruised my ribs pretty good when the cutoff was on an inside panel that required a giant stretch to reach from the companionway, with a foot on the tiller.

Put your oil pressure, and water temp, and bilge alarms down below within ear shot of the helm! If anyones down there when one gets to howling you'll know soon enough, and hear it yourself. If they are real obnoxious put them on a switch of some kind, had a bilge alarm switch go bad, those suckers are LOUD. An eye on the gauges should tell you before anything else...

For your cutoffs, one at the helm, and one just outside the engine compartment. You need to be able to shut her down if shes on fire without lifting the hood. I like having a fire extinguisher right there too, thankfully I haven't needed it!

I'm a little bit cautious about this stuff, but then again the boats I've worked required finesse in every sense of the word. Overkill the systems that alert you she needs some love and it'll be a less expensive trip!
__________________
Zach is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 18:11   #5
cruiser

Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,525
For security, why don't you wire up a set of lights in parallel with the lights on the control panel? That way, if one of the lights goes off (say low oil or high temp), you can have a display of that in the cockpit as well.

Or... buy a 2nd control panel and wire it up in the cockpit, so that you can see what's going on and hear any alarms without actually using the panel.

Just a little "outside of the box" type thinking on it.
__________________
ssullivan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 19:15   #6
Registered User
 
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 520
Images: 22
All good comments !

Mooking like an install on the inside of the companionway wall with some parallel indicators in the cockpit on the other side of the wall. The kill switch we should put at the helm. The fire scenario is a good reason for that.
__________________
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 19:20   #7
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,153
You can do both. Its technically possible to control your engines and your rudders from wherever you want now. There are even wireless controls available for doing that.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 20:06   #8
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,336
Gosh Rib, it really depends on your budget and risk analysis. Safest is dual (but the cost?). However if you only fit one, it must be inside for reliability.

Not sure if you really need dual lights, I would be happy with a LOUD aural alarm that is also mounted below but can be heard ANYWHERE on deck. They are easy to buy, very small, reasonably cheap, easy(ish) to retrofit to existing engine alarms transducers. Still nothing wrong with having lights as well remembering you only see lights when you are looking at them.

However, if you are really into control, I can help you out with voice alarms (male or female - any accent) that announce the type of failure and degree of response required. E.G. "WATER TEMP, WATER TEMP, CHECK COOLING" or "WARNING, OIL PRESSURE, OIL PRESSURE. SHUT DOWN IMMEDIATELY" or somesuch. One can even get off the shelf units designed for helicopter engine installations. Over the top I know.........
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 16-04-2008, 20:12   #9
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by ribbony View Post
Got plenty of spare cable from the engine to the control unit (tacho/ignition/kill switch/etc). But, where to install the thing ?

Inside - we have more room inside to put it, less holes in the cockpit, out of the weather, can see while working on the motor. Would then have to install a kill switch in the cockpit. More secure.

Outside - Easier access while steering, can see lights, hear alarms (oil pressure/overheating), can do a quick restart, etc.

I looked at dozens of photos of other yachts that we had from when we went shopping and it is close to 50/50 inside/outside.

Anybody got some thoughts ?
Lots of workboats have dual helm stations...one outside and one inside. You may want to look at what they have.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 04:45   #10
Registered User
 
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 520
Images: 22
The audible alarm makes sense.

As for the voice overlay, vary the accent depending on the action needed, we could have a German accent for "You Dumkupf, your engine is Kaput" or a smooth Indian voiceover "Oooooh deary deary me I think it is now time to turn the sea cock on so the engine can cool, or you will be cooking chappatis on it".
__________________
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 05:15   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Colombo
Posts: 1,059
If you are going to have a stop control at the helm (and on normal sized sailboats I don't think it necessary) have you considered making that a manual one using a push/pull sheathed cable to the mechanical stop control on the side of the injector pump.

In any event, if your engine uses a stop solenoid that is powered on to stop (ie when the engine is running there is no power to the solenoid, typically for this the key switch will have an anti clockwise position for Stop, or the will be a separate push button or similar switch) as many marine engines have, rather than powered On to run, then in my opinion one should consider having a manual cable operated stop to the mechanical stop control in any event. In our own case we put the manual stop handle next to the switch panel inside the boat - if outside you will have to work out how to seal it from water ingress.
__________________
MidLandOne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 06:06   #12
Registered User
 
Sunspot Baby's Avatar

Join Date: May 2003
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: Prout Manta 38' Catamaran - Sunspot Baby
Posts: 1,521
Images: 14
I guess I am in the minority. I want the instrument panel and engine controls at the helm. When the engine is running I am underway and someone is at the helm, not below checking gauges.

If I am sailing and suddenly that predatory tanker heads for me and I need engines, I want to have the controls at hand, not below.

If an engine starts to overheat I can see the gauges from the helm and take appropriate action.

Next these guys will be telling you to put your compass below for reliability :-)

George
__________________
She took my address and my name
Put my credit to shame
Sunspot Baby, sure had a real good time
Bob Seger
Sunspot Baby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 06:55   #13
Certifiable Refitter/Senior Wannbe
 
Wotname's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: Van DeStat Super Dogger 31'
Posts: 7,336
Well George, I share your desire to have the IP near the helm but I balance that against having an IP that works everytime. My all electric IP just won't stand up to the salt water around my helm position / cockpit, so it goes below (and can't afford two!); however if you can keep it dry, then at the helm is far better - assuming one is at the helm! I am guessing that most cats are well protected it that respect.
As for my compass, well I have one below as well :-)
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 07:26   #14
jzk
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 639
I vote for the helm. That is where you need the information. A duplicate set down below would be cool, but not necessary.
__________________
jzk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-04-2008, 14:01   #15
Registered User
 
ribbony's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Australia
Boat: Seabird Kayak :)
Posts: 520
Images: 22
We have a good waterproof switch that we can try in the cockpit as an engine stop button, if that does not work we can then go mechanical.

We did look over an amazing yacht that was designed to do a singlehanded Antarctic voyage, it had dual everything including steering inside & outside. Great design & layout, but what a pity the boat was Ferro cement with dynal plywood deck !
__________________

__________________
ribbony is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Electronic Controls cat man do Powered Boats 40 25-02-2011 12:55
Morse Marine Controls MV Construction, Maintenance & Refit 7 14-04-2008 17:45
Electronic Engine/Gear Controls DHHong Kong Engines and Propulsion Systems 7 26-03-2007 04:05
Windlass Controls Curtis Anchoring & Mooring 5 20-09-2006 11:00
Motor Controls Sonosailor Construction, Maintenance & Refit 3 27-04-2003 21:37



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:33.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.