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Old 28-07-2014, 17:25   #16
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Re: Electrical Conversion

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Originally Posted by SailerMatt View Post
Wow, thank you very much for that information Growley. That's perfect. I'll order the parts soon and get moving on it! This is just the information I was looking for!

One more thing: how many Golf Cart batteries should I purchase? Run them in a series?

Also, what is a good way of mounting the electric motor?

What selections should I make on the Kelley selection? Like CAN Bus? heatsink? etc...

I will give you a hollar nimble if I run into any hiccups!
You might think about Nimble's offer, even though he is talking about a brush type motor, if you really want to get off cheaply. Just sayin.

With the Kelly controller if you will be running more than 15 or 20 amps for extended periods, definitely get the optional heat sink. The CAN bus is good if you ever want to tinker with the settings.

Mounting is whatever you come up with. Angle iron and .125 sheet steel can be either welded or drilled and bolted. Use your existing motor mounts. You must consider two forces when mounting the drive... thrust, and torque. When the motor tries to turn the shaft, it is also trying to turn itself the opposite way. When the propeller pushes against the water, it also pushes the shaft forward, or pulls it aft. You have to harness both torque and thrust.

Once your bank is assembled, 1/8" steel can be stick welded using the batts. Just be aware that there are hazards in welding near fiberglass. Best to clamp your work together in place, then remove it for welding. Tack everything, then check for fit. You can get a fancy pants welding machine, or just get a stinger, some cable, ground clamp and rods, and go for it. If you don't know anything about welding you need a professional IMHO. Watch your depth of charge. Never let it get below 50%. You will typically run about 75 or 80 amps welding from 48v with 3/32" rod, I guess, so you really only got an hour or so before you need to stop and recharge fully.

Don't forget to install a safety collar on your shaft as soon as you disconnect it from your engine. Otherwise you could drop the shaft and suddenly have a 1" round hole in the bottom of your boat. Temporarily, you can stick some vise grips on the shaft right against the stuffing box.

You COULD MAYBE build a mount out of fiberglass on wood or something, but I really must recommend steel, or at least aluminum, for stability and rigidity.

If you shop around you can find a prefab C face plate, which will save you some work cutting the hole for the motor face. The gearbox I am going to use has a C face mounting for the motor already so that's super easy. The Motenergy motors are all C face.

Yes with the golf cart batts, hook them in series. You need 8 of them. Or if you just want to get your foot in the door get 4 12v group 31 batts in series. They won't give you much range, but you can later upgrade to the gc batts, and use the grp31s for a reserve bank. The Cal can handle the weight.
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:02   #17
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Great thread - @ SailerMatt - Take a look at this blog. MBianka is very active on the forum and he did his conversion some time ago so has a few miles under his keel..

THE BIANKA LOG BLOG

Here is another pretty long standing thread about electric propulsion but really use the search engine here and you will find a ton of threads.

Electric Propulsion

I also have a diesel engine out of the boat and am toying with the electric idea for coastal cruising. I am a belt and suspenders guy so any electric would have to be coupled with an onboard generator capable of continuous duty for several hours of motoring.

However the advantage of an on-board generator would go well beyond just propelling the boat. A/C power, battery charging etc.

And I would no longer be "stuck" with Yanmar or Volvo usury prices for parts. And I would never have to bleed an engine again, never have to troubleshoot overheating, never have to change an impeller, never have to guess what white, blue and black smoke means and, and, and...
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:04   #18
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Thanks Ex-Calif. That's great advice. And I agree with you. Having a small generator onboard has many advantages. If you ever needed to use it elsewhere, just pick it up!
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:05   #19
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Re: Electrical Conversion

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Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Great thread - @ SailerMatt - Take a look at this blog. MBianka is very active on the forum and he did his conversion some time ago so has a few miles under his keel..

THE BIANKA LOG BLOG

Here is another pretty long standing thread about electric propulsion but really use the search engine here and you will find a ton of threads.

Electric Propulsion

I also have a diesel engine out of the boat and am toying with the electric idea for coastal cruising. I am a belt and suspenders guy so any electric would have to be coupled with an onboard generator capable of continuous duty for several hours of motoring.

However the advantage of an on-board generator would go well beyond just propelling the boat. A/C power, battery charging etc.

And I would no longer be "stuck" with Yanmar or Volvo usury prices for parts. And I would never have to bleed an engine again, never have to troubleshoot overheating, never have to change an impeller, never have to guess what white, blue and black smoke means and, and, and...
Last time I looked at the prices, the Thoosa kit was a little too green for me.
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Old 28-07-2014, 18:10   #20
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Re: Electrical Conversion

There are so many decisions to make....

I'm going to work on re-wiring my Cal first....then I'll repower.

I'll take pictures and keep notes so you'all can follow along! I ordered all the parts needed already for the rewire... now its just the time factor! I'll start this weekend and get everything done in a week, except the mast electrical. I need to borrow my buddies chair for that.

Thanks for all the advice!
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Old 28-07-2014, 20:47   #21
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Hello!

So I've been stumbling around online through the maze of electric motor sites.

I came across this kit. Simple, effective. I just need to know if you think it is suitable for the Cal? I would use a gear reduction drive, too.

PMAC ME1305 36/48V 275A Motor Drive System - MOTOR DRIVE KITS - EV PARTS

Thanks for the advice!
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Old 29-07-2014, 06:12   #22
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Re: Electrical Conversion

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Originally Posted by SailerMatt View Post
Hello!

So I've been stumbling around online through the maze of electric motor sites.

I came across this kit. Simple, effective. I just need to know if you think it is suitable for the Cal? I would use a gear reduction drive, too.

PMAC ME1305 36/48V 275A Motor Drive System - MOTOR DRIVE KITS - EV PARTS

Thanks for the advice!
The Sevcon is a very nice controller. Price is okay but you would be much better off getting the last 0913 that cloud electric has on sale, and getting the Kelly kit directly from Kelly for it, if cost vs power is a priority. The electric motorsport ME1305 kit is okay but it does not include meters or charger.

What size and pitch is your prop, and how many PROP RPMs does it take to get up to hull speed, which is about 6.3kt for this boat? I suspect that your best results would come from a reduction ratio of 2.5:1 to maybe 3:1. Depending on your prop. Bigger prop or higher pitch needs more reduction. Smaller prop or less pitch can use a lower ratio. You could ask their tech guys for advice. The volt/rpm constant of 70 for the 1305 motor would seem to point to a higher optimum motor speed range at full power. It's just a starting point anyway. You will probably have to make some tweaks and adjustments to optimize your setup.

A clean prop and bottom are extremely important when operating with battery power. Your range will be greatly reduced by hull fouling. If you can't afford a haulout, at least careen at some protected beach and clean the bottom good.

Again, before you whip out the credit card and pull the trigger on a bunch of parts and pieces, make sure you have realistic expectations about range and performance. You will be powering your boat with an electric motor the size of a cantelope. It will not give you the power you are used to, and that 700 lbs of batteries will not give you the range that a full tank of diesel would get you, and optimum cruise speed will only be around 2.5 to 3kt. That is your pinch. Are you just dreaming? I will say again, the best use for electric drive is for maneuvering, not cruising. Solar and wind power are not going to sustain long range operation. They will only increase your range somewhat. A portable generator is good insurance against being stranded with low batts, but it is terribly inefficient for routine use, and your 2kw genset will only sustain about 3kt or so. You will see decent performance in calm, protected waters, but you will have no extra power for dealing with adverse conditions. The good parts you already know. No smoke or fumes, no fuel to buy or spill or smell or catch on fire, no oil changing, no mechanic bills, no wondering if your engine will start, no noise, no vibration except from prop and shaft, and a modest cool factor and a few eco points for being just a little greener, especially once you have a few hundred watts of solar and wind charging capability.
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Old 29-07-2014, 06:36   #23
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Re: Electrical Conversion

SailerMatt,

Our 2-27 is the other electric Cal Growley mentioned earlier. Seeing that you are also in San Francisco, perhaps we can get together so you can get a feel for the pros and cons of this as it applies to use in the bay. Overall, we love our drive, but we are also mindful of the limitations. If you have any questions, let me know.
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Old 29-07-2014, 08:19   #24
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Re: Electrical Conversion

There is a great Yahoo group on electric boats, mainly sailboats, and it is by far the best single source for information. I highly recommend going and reading a lot there for ideas and good sources, and what has and has not worked.

https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/electricboats/info

Dan
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Old 29-07-2014, 08:47   #25
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Growly, If you don't mind I'm going to post here and in your other thread as well to keep track of your progress with the electric drive installation. Depending on the size/weight of me next boat, I am strongly in favor of doing this same conversion. I would be looking for a more integrated system through.

Yesterday, I was looking at videos on youtube for electric drive installations. I came across this company The Electric Propeller Company E Series Marine Electric Drive Motors - The Electric Propeller Company I don't know their prices, but I image they are more expensive than doing a custom DIY. Hope the conversion runs well and last long.
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Old 29-07-2014, 10:09   #26
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Re: Electrical Conversion

SailorMat,
I have a Tartan T27 that the previous owner repowered with an Electric Yacht kit. It's 48v, mounted right on the old engine beds and uses the original prop shaft and prop. I love it and will one day put an outboard on my stern only because I plan on doing a lot of rivers and canals in my travels. I normally come back to port with nearly full batteries because of the regenerative action of the prop as I sail. While it's out of your stated price range, the $3k plus is an investment that I would have been willing to make also.

Edit: I have four 105 series West Marine gel cell batteries wired in series.
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Old 29-07-2014, 13:37   #27
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Re: Electrical Conversion

So I did a little research for Matt, and found a manual on the Ferryman A30.
It is a 10hp engine 2500 rpm, 21 lb/ft of torque.
It has a transmission with a 2:1 gear ratio. So it looks like the prop only spins a pretty low rpm, 600 to 1200 rpm.

I've suggested the low cost conversion is to use golf cart parts,
and have a GE 6.5hp 48volt cart motor max 4800 rpm,
and a Curtis 1204 24-36v 275amp controller I would let him have for $250.
At 6.5hp = 5kw, at 48 volts 4800 rpm is 100 amps.
At 24 volts, 2400 rpm is 200 amps. This looks OK.

In this case, it looks like the transmission can be used which solves a lot of problems, gives the 2:1 gears, and also gives reverse eliminates the more complicated electric reverse in a series motor.
Also very important is the thrust and prop shaft issue is already handled by the transmission. What must be done is fabricating the motor to transmission adapter. It is quite expensive to pay someone to do this, but I've already just made them myself, I have a lathe, drill press, welders, torches, etc.

Regarding batteries, if we use the figures above, we need 200 amps at 24 volts, but figure 36 volt pack. A 6v T105 does 75 amps for 100 minutes, so we need three in parallel for 225 amps, and six in series for 36 volts for a total of 18 batteries. This gives 1.5 hrs of electric motoring.
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Old 29-07-2014, 17:27   #28
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Matt-
Do also bear in mind that any money you put into a custom electric propulsion system, will probably also be lost, as will anything else in the boat, when and if you try to sell it. At best, if your design and workmanship are all professional grade, you will have an oddball boat that is slow to sell. If it isn't done well enough to impress the next enthusiast--it will make the boat un-sellable, basically a total loss.
On the other hand, a long shaft outboard retains it's own value, and a boat without an engine can still always be sold.

I'd suggest the best long-term move may be to find a rebuilt warranteed diesel or even an A4 if that is available to fit the boat. Either one would retain value.

If you are set on electric, DO see the other folks who have done it. DO consider whether 2-3 knots in flat calm water is going to be enough power for you in SF Bay. Do consider that a gasoline generator, like the Hondas, might be enough for casual use but aboard a boat, for long term use, you'd want a fixed diesel genset installed--and even the few small cheap ones aren't small or cheap. And then there's the batteries, and installing a proper charging and monitoring system, and space and weight.
Hey, maybe your college's engineering school could come up with some formal help and sic a team of undergraduate engineers on the project with you. Seriously.
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Old 29-07-2014, 18:16   #29
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Re: Electrical Conversion

Sailor,
I don't mean to disrespect his boat, but it's not a rare boat in need of saving for posterity, and with a dead engine it's value is greatly diminished.
Maybe the electric conversion will be attractive enough that when the time to sell comes, it may well be the selling point of the boat. Now I don't want an electric boat, but there are a growing number of people that seem to, yes it would defiantly be a niche market, but depending on where he is, it just might increase the value?
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Old 29-07-2014, 18:22   #30
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Re: Electrical Conversion

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Regarding batteries, if we use the figures above, we need 200 amps at 24 volts, but figure 36 volt pack. A 6v T105 does 75 amps for 100 minutes, so we need three in parallel for 225 amps, and six in series for 36 volts for a total of 18 batteries. This gives 1.5 hrs of electric motoring.
18 batteries! Oh sh!t. That'll sink my boat!


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Matt-

If you are set on electric, DO see the other folks who have done it. DO consider whether 2-3 knots in flat calm water is going to be enough power for you in SF Bay. Do consider that a gasoline generator, like the Hondas, might be enough for casual use but aboard a boat, for long term use, you'd want a fixed diesel genset installed--and even the few small cheap ones aren't small or cheap. And then there's the batteries, and installing a proper charging and monitoring system, and space and weight.
Hey, maybe your college's engineering school could come up with some formal help and sic a team of undergraduate engineers on the project with you. Seriously.
MBianka's video cruise down the Hudson is revealing and practical. The Honda is fired up a couple hours at around 70% SOC in and runs continuously after that.

We get 2 knot currents here. I think 3 knots calm water isn't gonna cut it for me.

I think daysailing it is very viable. But even for moderate coastal cruising the inboard carbon engine is still probably the right call.
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