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Old 14-09-2011, 17:04   #1
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Electric Repower Cost Analysis - Value of Yanmars

Hi folks...

Without venturing too deeply into the details, I have a question. I'm investigating the possibility of an electric repower project (serial hybrid architecture), including new DC genset and high-voltage battery bank. This is not something to delve into lightly, and money is an object.

The specific data point I'm missing at the moment (well, one of them) is the value of my existing engines. What, realistically, am I likely to get for a Yanmar 77HP turbo-diesel 4JH-DTE with 3136 hours, and a Yanmar 3GM 7.5 kilowatt AC genset with 1850 hours? This isn't exactly eBay stuff, and I'm in the Pacific Northwest. It would be great to have a buyer lined up, and that person could be involved in the removal to make sure they are handled properly and that all the associated bits stay associated. I have manuals and various spares.

Both engines run smoothly with no problems, with recent service by Hatton (including injector patterning on the main and a new water pump on the genset). I'm looking at this project for all the usual electric reasons, in addition to serviceability issues in the deep narrow engine rooms that make it hard for this galumphing old body to do something as routine as change an impeller.

Photos below...

Thanks!
Steve
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Old 14-09-2011, 17:55   #2
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Re: Electric Repower cost analysis - value of Yanmars

Can't help with the pricing, but curious how you'll be sizing your electric propulsion drive. A 30 KW motor with a 30 KW genset? What size battery pack? LiFePO?
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Old 14-09-2011, 18:06   #3
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Re: Electric Repower cost analysis - value of Yanmars

Adamante - I'm looking at some new tech coming down the pike that is scaled well for my boat, but have not yet run all the numbers on genset size, battery bank, re-propping, etc. Just starting the process, which will be well-documented if it happens. Nomadness is a big ol' girl at about 36,000 pounds, so there's a lot to consider.

At the moment, I'm wondering if I'll be able to factor in some useful offsets in the value of the existing machinery.

One fun thing: when I had my DC fridge out during the wood stove installation, I noticed a cavernous empty space under the nav station and pilothouse floor. Big enough to hold me, and that's saying something... but absolutely no access. Aside from the general issues of having inaccessible parts of a hull, this has been bothering me just for the wasted space. Pulling the engine and dropping in a wee electric motor would let me remove the Wall of Fuel Processing, exposing that entire space... presusumably to include a huge battery drawer balancing the house bank to starboard.

Cheers,
Steve
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Old 14-09-2011, 20:58   #4
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Re: Electric Repower cost analysis - value of Yanmars

Having worked aboard diesel electric tugs...I just don't think we are there yet when it comes to downsizing to sailboat size.

Battery weight/maintenance issues come to mind.

Unless someone has the $$$ to try an auto hybrid motor in a boat...that would be interesting.

Other than "one off" designs, I don't think there is a company that is capable of supplying the OEM yacht builders with motors My 2 cents
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Old 14-09-2011, 22:00   #5
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Re: Electric Repower cost analysis - value of Yanmars

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Originally Posted by Chief Engineer View Post
Having worked aboard diesel electric tugs...I just don't think we are there yet when it comes to downsizing to sailboat size.

Battery weight/maintenance issues come to mind.

Unless someone has the $$$ to try an auto hybrid motor in a boat...that would be interesting.

Other than "one off" designs, I don't think there is a company that is capable of supplying the OEM yacht builders with motors My 2 cents
Luckily Mastervolt disagrees with you, as does Hunter, who offers a 26e electric version that's been available for a while. The Europeans are way ahead of us on this side of the pond when it comes to electric boating.

As an owner of a converted electric sailboat, I can tell you that they **absolutely** scale down to sailboat size. There are tradeoffs to be made, and they aren't the proper solution for everyone, but what an amazing difference if you have one.

JRM
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Old 14-09-2011, 22:21   #6
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Re: Electric Repower cost analysis - value of Yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Microship View Post
Hi folks...

Without venturing too deeply into the details, I have a question. I'm investigating the possibility of an electric repower project (serial hybrid architecture), including new DC genset and high-voltage battery bank. This is not something to delve into lightly, and money is an object.

The specific data point I'm missing at the moment (well, one of them) is the value of my existing engines. What, realistically, am I likely to get for a Yanmar 77HP turbo-diesel 4JH-DTE with 3136 hours, and a Yanmar 3GM 7.5 kilowatt AC genset with 1850 hours? This isn't exactly eBay stuff, and I'm in the Pacific Northwest. It would be great to have a buyer lined up, and that person could be involved in the removal to make sure they are handled properly and that all the associated bits stay associated. I have manuals and various spares.

Both engines run smoothly with no problems, with recent service by Hatton (including injector patterning on the main and a new water pump on the genset). I'm looking at this project for all the usual electric reasons, in addition to serviceability issues in the deep narrow engine rooms that make it hard for this galumphing old body to do something as routine as change an impeller.
Here's a link to dieselenginetrader.com for Yanmar. The newly rebuilt version with a 1 year warranty looks like $7200 US for the 4JH. There's more numbers there that I don't know, so you should take a peek yourself. Not sure on the genset.

I sold my old diesel, which was a Universal M20 for $1500 when I went electric, although that was just a happy coincidence. For that price the guy picked it up at the harbor where we had just pulled it out using the token operated fish hoist . For reference I replaced it with a 5.5KW electric motor, although it takes me just about 1.5KW (input) to make 4 knots (Catalina 30 @ ~5 tons). He was planning on rebuilding it and putting it in his Catalina 30 to replace his toasted engine.

If you haven't found the yahoo group for electricboats yet, you should check it out. Also, if you haven't already had the joy (and if you've said the words "electric propulsion" out loud anywhere near a boating population you probably have), get ready for lots of folks to tell you that it's impossible to have an electric auxiliary sailboat, that you'll die if you try and do it, it's a waste of money, it'll never work, etc. Just smile as you silently motor by .

My wife was a skeptic right up to the point she went out the first time. Recently we went to seriously look at a bigger boat to purchase, the very first question she asked when we opened the engine access door was, "What will it take to convert this to electric?" This got a scoff from the showing broker, at which point the wife extolled a few of the virtues of our existing electric auxiliary. Have I mentioned I have one of the best wifes ever ?

JRM
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Old 02-10-2011, 14:41   #7
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Re: Electric Repower Cost Analysis - Value of Yanmars

Thanks for the thoughts, folks - sorry for the slow follow-up! I'm seriously considering it, knowing that I'm on the edge of practicality and that there are some rather scary trade-offs. I've been a long-time lurker on the Yahoo group, and if I can do this without too much compromise (or crazy cost), I will. I'll keep you posted!

Cheers,
Steve
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Old 02-10-2011, 15:48   #8
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Re: Electric Repower Cost Analysis - Value of Yanmars

Love to hear the details of your plans as they emerge.
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Old 02-10-2011, 16:12   #9
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Re: Electric Repower Cost Analysis - Value of Yanmars

I looked at an 11Kw motor with a 14Kw generator and 800 AmH storage. This would have been on a 37 sail boat with 800 watts of PV and a 400 watt wind generator, it would have cost much more than a new a new 40 hp diesel. I have keel cooled frig/freezer and 3 gal/hr water maker as my major draws with nav gear (radar) for close in work (normally when under power). Well it looks like I would have got 3.5 kn cranked out (the current here can run a solid 4-5 kn, and even with planning you have to push through 4 kn regularly) and only 300 kn on my present fuel, of course you want to use the juice from the sun and wind, but have to plan for worst case, or be greatly disappointed.
The 40 hp with present fuel gives me 500 kn and a solid 7 kn. I went with 450 watt of solar and 400 watt wind gennie and find I never need to use my engine for more than close work in the channels.
Diesel electric has to come a long way before it is useful to a small cruising sailboat. If I was just in and out of a slip for weekends I would have a 600 Amh bank and an electric motor, charging the bank at the dock.
I look forward to seeing new technologies and will follow your blog.
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