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Old 15-03-2010, 16:19   #1
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Question Dual Oversized Racor Filters on Yanmar 1GM10 for Cruising?

Hi, I have a Yanmar 1GM10 that runs beautifully and treats me well, and I hope to continue to have the same success with it next year when I take my boat long distance cruising.

I realize that fundamental to this is supplying the engine with absolutely clean, pure fuel.

Right now, I have a compact series racor filter on there that I do not consider nearly large enough. But I wonder about the risk of over-sizing. I would like to build a Y-Valve setup to be able to swap filters while underway, but I think for simplicity and costs sake I will simply add an oversized primary filter first followed by an additional smaller filter (my existing compact series racor) in series as extra insurance. The first filter would have a vacuum guage T-fitting as well, possibly even wired up in the dash where i can see it so I have no excuse for not always knowing the current health of my filters. I will also use external baja filters and take all precautions but basically my goal is to design the most bullet-proof cruising setup I can for my 1GM10's Fuel Suppy. Any suggestions either on this particular question or more generally are really appreciated.

Does anyone see any problem with this idea?

On the Racor 500 Series thread that is going on right now, it seemed like this would be possible to use an oversized filter, but I am just looking to reconfirm that I can not go "too big" or do "too much" to provide clean fuel. I like the extra space in the collection bowl that the bigger filter provides, just seems more robust, etc. I am still new to diesels and am learning all i can about them before leaving, this forum has been a great resource so far thanks for all the info.

Right now using this Compact Filtration filter "Compact Series" Racor and while I do not think it is enough, I would like to still use it in series if this is possible and/or desirable. I would like to use something like this as the first filter in the line Turbine Series Fuel Filter / Water Separator
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Old 15-03-2010, 16:59   #2
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you can never have too much filtration
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Old 15-03-2010, 17:04   #3
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so aside from money and space constraints i will go all out. thanks.
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Old 15-03-2010, 17:43   #4
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I agree with Never Monday. I am installing something similar on my boat. It was suggested that the first filter be a "coarser" rating than the second. I went with 25 micron leading to 10 micron. Best regards.
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Old 15-03-2010, 18:09   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shoalcove View Post
I agree with Never Monday. I am installing something similar on my boat. It was suggested that the first filter be a "coarser" rating than the second. I went with 25 micron leading to 10 micron. Best regards.
if your doing a series set up.

The OP seems to want a dual parallel system. This would dictate the Racor 500's be the same. The Yanmar on engine is 5-7mcn. So there is no use going finer than a 10mcn in the Racor....**** BUT **** since the OP will have a massive amount of reserve capacity in a 500, go with the 2mcn.
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Old 15-03-2010, 19:29   #6
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Do you think doing parallel is needed or I am already doing enough with 2x500 series in series?

I suppose it is not too much more difficult to add a few more y-adapters and make it possible to do either?

Anyone have any specific or general tips for constructing your own setup?

All input so far is much appreciated. Thanks!
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Old 15-03-2010, 20:25   #7
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Using an "oversized" fuel filter like the Racor 500 on a smaller engine is not a good idea. These are "turbine" flow filters that rely on the swirling of the fuel to separate out water from the diesel. Using an "oversized" filter will decrease the "turbine" effect and water will be passed right through to your engine and injectors, etc. Use properly sized filter units in series or parallel if you want more filtration or ease of filter changing.
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Old 15-03-2010, 21:10   #8
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Thank you! This is exactly the haunting idea that caused me to post this question, yet some people feel certain that more filtration is always better.

This is a tiny little 9hp single cylinder engine, but it works perfectly and I really want to create the most robust possible cruising setup I can.

Any input is greatly appreciated. The tiny filter on there is really just too small though and I am certain I heard in a intro diesel mechanics class I took that over-sizing the size of the primary (to an extent of course) was a good idea because it allowed more room for the collection of h2o/sediment in the collection bowl and therefore a larger pillow if you were negligent (which i don't plan to be ) and allowed the collection bowl to collect past the limit point - but of course i plan to monitor them regularly both visually (to drain any collected h2o, etc.) and with a vac. gauge ideally wired into my nav station or engine panel. In our class they showed a setup with a Y-Adapter and a Parallel style setup to be the model of excellence for a cruising boat, basically the equivalent of what Racor sells pre-made for like $1000. That is what I want to create, but on a more limited budget.

I am going to transcribe my "ideal setup" from paper into electronic format so I can post it.

So what size/model do people feel is the *largest* allowable filter I can place in either series, parallel, or both for my Yanmar 1GM10. Is it just the "Turbine" series that is unacceptable in general for my little engine or the 500 series sizing?

I think a parallel setup seems considerably more complex to install, while two slightly over-sized filters in series will hopefully be enough. Any thoughts on this? With a series setup do you prefer to have independent vac gauges on each filter?

I do already have a 12v fuel pump wired in with a switch that can be used to bleed the engine easily, and its just hooked up on the intake side of my current filter (b/w the filter and the fuel tank). I'll just transfer this over to the next system I build out.

Thanks!
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Old 15-03-2010, 22:32   #9
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I've heard about the "turbine" thing but I'm not sure it isn't marketing talk. Racor recently released a new fuel polisher pump (FPM-050) that they claim is a breakthrough - it pumps just 50 gallons in 24 hours and is meant to be left on all the time - $500 just for the pump. It is designed to be used with the Racor turbine filters - but there sure couldn't be much "turbining" at that trickle. Maybe the water and impurity molecules precipitate out of the fuel because they are just plain bored.

You should be aware that Yanmar specs 30 micron filters for the primary filter with most of it's engines and says that using a finer filter could damage the fuel pump. The secondary filter on the engine is supposed to catch anything less than 30 microns. Your engine is presumably out of warranty so you can use a finer filter. Many people disagree with Yanmar on this point but you'd think they would know what's best.

You might want to consider leaving your current fuel filter in place since it works (and things that work on a boat should not be dismissed lightly). Instead buy a Racor turbine filter with a 2 micron element as a polisher. Set it up on a loop with that pump you have. Whenever you want to say "thank you" to your engine, just run the polisher for 2 or 3 hours.

Carl
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Old 15-03-2010, 23:59   #10
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Racor Turbine Filters

I have just finished doing the job youu are starting so I hope this will be useful. I have a 65hp 4 cyl Yanmar that has been running all it's life with a single 900 series Racor on it. This is a 90 gal/hr filter on a 1 gal/hr fuel flow. When I decided to install a dual setup and got down in the engine space I found a filthy mess of a filter. This thing was nearly plugged, yet the motor ran fine. It 's a 10 micron prior to the super fine filter mounted on the engine. There was a substantial amount of water in the bowl along with some biologic crud. Racor says that their filter elements reject water molecules and I believe them. The turbo aspect may be reduced but the filter element did it's task. I think that this type of "head room" is useful especially if you get a load of dirty fuel.

cheers,
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Old 16-03-2010, 10:22   #11
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Thanks for that - so is it just the "Turbine" Series that is the problem for my little 1GM10 or are large filters in general problem for small diesels? and that's why they are rated for compact filtration? ...like the Model 120A which is in fact what I believe I have on there now...

So can I simply choose the largest filter from the "Low Flow" rated filters? For example Model #245 would certainly seem to be better and provide more cushion for water/sediment collection.

Any opinions on 2 x #245's in series? Is series a problem? Am I creating too much resistance in the fuel line?

I would put the 30 micron filters on these, maybe a finer filter on the second...

An independent fuel polishing system may in fact be the most KISS friendly solution because it is an independent system that does not involve dismantling a small but simple fuel filtration system that has so far delivered a 100% success rate while cruising around the channel islands....that way I can feel fine about a single primary filter knowing I have a robust polishing system of dual 500's or what not for keeping the system clean no matter where I am.
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Old 16-03-2010, 12:30   #12
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Remember that the secondary filter on the engine is what protects the engine. The primary filter just protects the secondary filter - keeping it from clogging too soon. You're going to replace that secondary filter on a regular schedule in any event so it might as well do "some" work. I think you can be very comfortable that Yanmar's engineers have been conservative with their filter specs.

An independent polishing system is a far better solution than more filters ahead of the engine. The most likely problem you will face is that someday you buy water fouled fuel - not drops but quarts. This will quickly fill the bowl in any filter. With a polishing system, you will see this and realize you've got a problem - at the dock and not at sea.

Also, no reason to spend money on a dual filter setup for a polishing system. The dual system is handy at sea to keep your engine going while you change a filter or drain the bowl. With the polisher, you just turn off the polisher while you change the filter.

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Old 16-03-2010, 12:47   #13
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Thanks! That response really confirms what I am going to do. I will leave the simple system in place that works great and only T in ahead of the primary filter to add a selection valve for using the polishing system instead of the standard primary filter.

I will also need to T into the existing fuel return, as shown in this picture that I took off this excellent guide/post here Ariel - Cape Dory 36 - Projects - Fuel Schematics

His system is more complex than I need or want, as he has provided the ability to use the polishing system as the primary filters if a problem were to develop with the small primary he uses. He depends on the dual 500's to polish and the small filter for his engine - much as I aspire to replicate.

However, I will do a single 900 or thereabouts for the polishing with a vac gauge to know when I need that filter changed, and a separate vac gauge on the smaller filter.

I have a 12v fuel pump already built into the system as follows:

Tank -> 12v Fuel Pump -> Primary Racor 120a Compact Filter -> Yanmar Secondary OEM Filter (5-7mc) -> 1GM10 Yanmar

Does anyone see anything wrong with the idea of making the T between the 12v Fuel Pump and the existing 120A Racor? That way I imagine I could continue to use the 12v pump for quick/easy bleeding as well as for pumping fuel through the polishing system with the selection valve for the normal fuel filter circuit closed.

A lot of the Turbine series filters appear to come standard with 2mic filters. I was planning to use the 30mic as well in the fuel polishing system -- anyone do differently, using finer filters in the polishing system with the standard 30mic on the primary?
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Old 16-03-2010, 13:03   #14
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You need to have the filter in front of the pump less you kill the pump
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Old 16-03-2010, 13:15   #15
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so the 12v pump that the PO installed in my current fuel system should actually not be between the tank and the primary? Basically I go tank to 12v pump to primary filter which is currently the Racor 120 compact.

So when re-designing this system I will want this 12v pump located after my primary filter? Will I want an additional isolated fuel pump for the polishing system? I suppose I could change out the 12v pump on the primary circuit and replace it with a diesel-approved outboard-style priming bulb for easy/quick bleeding, and that is a more KISS friendly design anyway since it can be done mechanically with no electric pump.

I could then put the 12v pump on it's own for the polishing system only. Are the Warlbro pumps that appear to be in the nicer fuel systems worth the additional expense or is the cheap auto parts fuel pump sufficient?
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