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Old 22-07-2011, 14:14   #16
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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Originally Posted by CoCoKnots View Post
I think the point may have been missed here... Alge-X may or may not be a valid product... ??? However, the importance of clean fuel is valid & here is a simple way of preforming the task where ever you happen to be. If the Algex doesnt do anything... Ok. It's just there in case.
No, I did not miss your point; everything else you said was very reasonable and logical. I like big filters and valves that give options. I've used Raycor filters for 30 years.
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Old 22-07-2011, 16:21   #17
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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I admit 1) I may be on the list of top offenders for not using Biobor as often as recommended & 2) I usually look for the longest route from point "A" to point "B".

About 10 years ago I installed an Algex, electric fuel pump (at the tank), three 3 way ball valves and two Racor 500 fuel filters. Each of two ball valves are located by a Racor filter to control fuel access to that filter. The third ball valve is located at the engine ahead of the mechanical pump.


Only one Racor filter is used at a time. If for any reason it gets clogged (Murphay's Law @ worst time possible), instead of the time required to change the filter... all you need to do is change the fuel path to the other filter. You can then change the filter at a later time at your convience.


The third ball valve is used to control fuel path, either to the engine or return to the fuel tank. With the use of the electric fuel pump you are able to route the fuel thru the (in my case the Algex), the Racor fuel filter & back to the tank. I am able to polish my fuel myself on a regular basis.


I am also able to utilize the fuel pump when I do change filters to control fuel/air level in each filter... Also if I need to bleed the system.


Just another tool for the tool box. It may sound complex. But it is quite simple & can save a lot of time & expense in the long run. Hope it helps, Cal
CoCoNuts,

Thanks for the post. Your approach is the only way I could have solved my problem when the fuel path clogged. Ironically the Racor 500 filter did nothing to protect the engine from dying since my mechanic said he found the algae blob choking the check ball. Since the check ball inside the Racor body is upstream of everything, the Racor itself killed the engine so to speak.

And of course I was single handing and had just cleared the marina breakwater. I sailed off the breakwater and did a complete debug of the fuel system while on autopilot. Nothing worked, and I (rightfully as it turns out) concluded the whole Racor would need to be taken apart at the dock.

BTW the new engine, new fuel tank, and new fuel lines I had just installed had only been operating for 20 hours. The fuel in the tank, and the tank itself should have been pristine. And no, I had not added any biocide to the fuel.

I might speculate that during the long re-power work at the yard, the Racor filter (the only part of the fuel path not new) may not have been cleaned properly.

Your dual path fuel system should be de riguer for a boat I think, since I could have just thrown a few valves and BY PASSED THE WHOLE BAD RACOR FILTER BODY, and resumed motoring.

Given this specific case of check ball failure mode, I don't see how anyone could have confidence in their engine without your changeable dual fuel path set up.

I know I will implement it.

BTW anyone know how aircraft handle this?

Thanks,

Journeyman
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Old 22-07-2011, 16:32   #18
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

It sounds like CoCoKnots has a nice system. I like that he can polish the fuel just by flipping some valves. It would be just as effective without the Alge-X.

If magnets killed bacteria, we wouldn't need antibiotics. Take a ride through one of those big doughnut scanners that hospitals have and your infection is cured.

Dual filters are a very good idea.
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Old 22-07-2011, 16:36   #19
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

I think topic headings like this can do a great disservice. Journeyman, why didn't you label it something like "another clogged fuel line" or something of that ilk? You say you didn't use a biocide, so why label your thread with such a title?
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Old 22-07-2011, 17:08   #20
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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BTW anyone know how aircraft handle this?
Generally avgas is not normally allowed to sit around in planes' fuel tanks for as long as marine diesel occupies a boats tanks. Fuel is usually filtered as it is pumped from holding tanks into the plane's tanks. Thereafter it is up to the engine's fuel filters to take care of anything left over. Making sure one has clean fuel to start with is of paramount importance, as is starting with inspected fuel filters; if one has fuel filter issues in flight, there is not much one can do about it.
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Old 22-07-2011, 18:12   #21
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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I think topic headings like this can do a great disservice. Journeyman, why didn't you label it something like "another clogged fuel line" or something of that ilk? You say you didn't use a biocide, so why label your thread with such a title?
DeepFrz,

The reason I labeled it "Do Not Use Biocide", as you can see in my initial post, is because the number one small marine diesel mfg in the world, Yanmar, says that in their owners manual. Yet around the dock, use of Biocide is assumed?

I wish someone had said that loud and clear to me, since I almost added to my fuel tank and ran it through my engine.

Perhaps a better label would have been "Do not use biocide in a Yanmar engine". In any event, keeping someone from potentially voiding the warrantee on a $20,000 repower does not seem to me like a disservice.

J
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Old 22-07-2011, 18:23   #22
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

So do you invalidate your Yanmar warranty if you use ValvTect fuel, which is found all over the place at marina docks? Here is a quote from the ValvTect Web site:

Quote:
ValvTect Marine Premium Diesel contains BioGuard micro-biocide and is formulated to keep the fuel free of bacteria, fungi and algae that plug fuel filters, cause corrosion and can shut the engine down. ValvTect Marine Premium Diesel also contains ValvTect's Diesel Guard Heavy Duty Marine Diesel Additive, which prevents and cleans up injector deposits that cause loss of power and poor fuel economy. Fuel economy tests indicate improved fuel economy up to 13.6%. ValvTect Marine Premium Diesel also contains cetane improver, fuel stabilizer, lubricity improvers and moisture dispersant that prevents wear, prevents sludge and significantly extends the life of fuel filters.
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Old 22-07-2011, 18:31   #23
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Kind of like the sign on a folding ladder that tells you not to stand on the top step.
If I can't use the top step on the ladder then why did they put it there?
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Old 22-07-2011, 18:34   #24
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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Generally avgas is not normally allowed to sit around in planes' fuel tanks for as long as marine diesel occupies a boats tanks. Fuel is usually filtered as it is pumped from holding tanks into the plane's tanks. Thereafter it is up to the engine's fuel filters to take care of anything left over. Making sure one has clean fuel to start with is of paramount importance, as is starting with inspected fuel filters; if one has fuel filter issues in flight, there is not much one can do about it.
a. AVgas, like gasoline, is imuune to bacteria; too toxic.

b. Jet A (much like diesel) is ALWAYS treated with biocide, frequently Biorbor JF.
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Old 22-07-2011, 18:41   #25
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

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BTW anyone know how aircraft handle this?
Biobor JF is quite commonly used in Jet A and similar kerosene based fuels. Some manufactures require its use.

Aircraft also have fuel tank sump points located at the lowest points of each tank. Pilots/ground crews should sump the tanks on a regular basis.

I have personally seen two airliners that were scraped due to microbiological growth activity. One wing spar (main structural member of the wing) on each aircraft was corroded to the point where it was not economical feasible to repair the aircraft. Acidic metabolic products from microbiological growth is highly corrosive to aluminum.

So, its bad stuff. Kill it and keep your fuel clean.
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Old 22-07-2011, 19:01   #26
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

So maybe that is yanmar's point ... biocide is in diesel anyway .. so don't use a biocide additive? that would be speculation on my part. yanmar offers no rationale for their blanket statement "do not use" in the owners manual.

I like the low sump point aviation drain. wished i had specified it when they built the tank.
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Old 22-07-2011, 19:12   #27
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

algae-x is snake oil.
another good post by Peter (roverhi)

Biocide doesn't make the problem. You do that when you don't use it.
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Old 22-07-2011, 19:15   #28
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

I use Biobor JF in my boat. You just need to do it right. Shock treatment first and then the maintenance dose.

Stick to a schedule. If too little is used you can actually cause the micro organisms to develop a resistance to the biocide so follow directions.
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Old 22-07-2011, 19:56   #29
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

If you are in Mack Boring's exclusive Yanmar distribution territory -- East Coast US, Michigan, and somewhere else I can't remember - they determine Yanmar warranty issues not the manual. They specifically recommend Killem biocide as well as other FPPF additives (which they sell). This is partly because all diesel fuel in the US has been reformulated for new environmental standards during the last five years. Even if you haven't needed additives in the past you probably should consider them in the US. Or use a fuel with additives such as Valvtect

I always use a biocide plus a lubricity and cetane booster.

Carl
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Old 23-07-2011, 20:06   #30
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Re: Do Not Use Biocide

When we clean a diesel fuel tank, we can tell if a biocide has been used. We will pull up a coffee ground type deposit from the bottom of the tanks - this deposit is the result of biocide killing the micro growth that exist.
The micro growth is there because there is water in the tank, their food source. If you have moles in the back yard, they are there because there is a food source, such as bugs. If you have micro growth in the fuel, it is because you have water.
I have tested many fuel additives and rely on only one to address the water in both diesel and gasoline. Make the water go away and the micro growth goes away.
The difference between micro growth and algae, algae requires sunlite.
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