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Old 23-12-2011, 08:59   #76
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Re: Failed Injection Pump Rebuild--Update

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Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Thanks for the above post svHyLyte. I've been following this thread and posted before. Combined with the above post, you also stated earlier "The boatyard mechanic is Perkins trained and certified with 20+ years of experience. I have known him for 10+ years and the owners of the Boatyard for 19 years."
A proper pump shop has to be spotless and orderly, if they are not go elsewhere. So here you have experts with years and years of refined experiance still having a tough time finding out a simple problem. I stated before and I'll state it again. "When it comes to these pumps let the people that know what they are doing do it." This is NOT a job for the sailing shade tree mechanic. Anyone who has the equipment, the proper shop, is well versed, and experianced in pump rebuilds does not need advice about anything diesel related from a Internet forum. Getting lucky on ones own pump and Internet "How to" websites does not make one even close to an expert on pumps.
Thanks for the note Tellie. Despite the cost and frustrations, I would still go with the experts. If I had full use of my left arm I could have dismounted and remounted the pump myself and the charges would have been limited to the pump re-build and parts (and much cussing no doubt). I do not, however, and the yard bill is the cost of a(nother) foolish decision years ago that nearly cost my arm entirely.

One thing comes to mind however. The extent to which all of the elaborate systems aboard a modern large yacht require a very high level of knowledge/skills/dexterity on the part of an owner. Or a large Pocketbook!

Frankly I begin to miss the simplicity of our first yacht--wood, rope, oil-lamps, block ice, et al, and our ability to ready for sea by no more than casting off the liness, hoisting the jib and wending our way out of our mooring field, or row if necessary with a sweep doing double duty as a whisker pole. (Addendum by wife reading over my shoulder: "yes, and sweat, mosquitos, drifting like a leaf a mile from home when the wind fails...").

N'any case. We're almost back in business.
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Old 23-12-2011, 10:30   #77
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Re: Failed Injection Pump Rebuild--Update

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Originally Posted by svHyLyte View Post
Thanks for the note Tellie. Despite the cost and frustrations, I would still go with the experts. If I had full use of my left arm I could have dismounted and remounted the pump myself and the charges would have been limited to the pump re-build and parts (and much cussing no doubt). I do not, however, and the yard bill is the cost of a(nother) foolish decision years ago that nearly cost my arm entirely.

One thing comes to mind however. The extent to which all of the elaborate systems aboard a modern large yacht require a very high level of knowledge/skills/dexterity on the part of an owner. Or a large Pocketbook!

Frankly I begin to miss the simplicity of our first yacht--wood, rope, oil-lamps, block ice, et al, and our ability to ready for sea by no more than casting off the liness, hoisting the jib and wending our way out of our mooring field, or row if necessary with a sweep doing double duty as a whisker pole. (Addendum by wife reading over my shoulder: "yes, and sweat, mosquitos, drifting like a leaf a mile from home when the wind fails...").

N'any case. We're almost back in business.
Well I'm glad you're almost back in business. These things can be more than just frustrating at times.
There are a few things on board that unfortunatly do require the input of the experts. The diesel pump is one of them. If someone wants to take on the re-build of the rest of their diesel there's a good case to be made.
I too miss the simplicity of my earlier boats. Nothing, as you note, has kept me tied to a cleat more than all the new fangled must have electronics and equipment. I deal with new customers all the time, especially this time of the year, as they prepare to head out. I'm amazed at the tens of thousads of dollars spent to buy and outfit the must have lastest and greatest boat bling that somehow proves to them that they are responsible/capable sailors. Most of which they don't understand or are capable of fixing on their own. My big boat days are very soon coming to an end. The wife wants other adventures and my daughter is now off on her own. But as I sit here in my shop with my old trusty oil lamps on either side of this lap top, I realize a return to the trusted ways. I get to dream again, like I did so many years ago, of finding that sweet little 32 footer that will provide a new home with the simplicity I once left behind.
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Old 23-12-2011, 11:09   #78
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Re: Failed Injection Pump Rebuild--Update

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tellie View Post
Well I'm glad you're almost back in business. These things can be more than just frustrating at times.
There are a few things on board that unfortunatly do require the input of the experts. The diesel pump is one of them. If someone wants to take on the re-build of the rest of their diesel there's a good case to be made.
I'm glade to see all came out well. One thing I might add to Tellie's comment is turbo's. They too can be a problem and are a bit complicated, and have to be handled with care.
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Old 23-12-2011, 15:22   #79
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FWIW, Southeast Power Systems rebuilt a pump for me and it was perfect. Engine never ran that good!
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Old 24-12-2011, 08:47   #80
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

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FWIW, Southeast Power Systems rebuilt a pump for me and it was perfect. Engine never ran that good!
I have no doubt that my experience was simply an unfortunate fluke as Southeast Power has an excellent reputation and their tech's went out of their way to ensure I understood and was satisified with their work. Even the most skilled mechanics/technicians/physicians et al can have difficulty from time to time with even the most--seemingly--routine procedures. I just happened to pull the short straw this time. C'est la vie, eh?
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Old 01-02-2013, 18:12   #81
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

I know this is a rather old thread, but I found it helpful when thinking about attacking my pump, a CAV DPA with hydraulic governor on a Westerbeke W30 (aka 4-91). Mine was leaking between the housing and the hydraulic body. Fortunately, I have very good access, relatively speaking. Cleaned the area, sprayed with ether to remove diesel residue and dusted with baby powder to confirm area of leak. I was reluctant to remove the pump from the engine due to timing challenges although this may have been an unreasonable fear. This was my approach:

Some time back, I picked up a pair of non working pumps on eBay for $100, one with a broken ear on the housing and the other missing the end plate. I disassembled them to gain experience of how they go together, swapped the parts to make one complete unit and sent it off to get rebuilt by the pros at Advance Diesel Systems in Huntsville Alabama. They did not mind that I had fooled with it first. Cost $325 plus shipping. Several other places had quoted $600-750. With a new pump in hand in case of disaster, I was emboldened to proceed. New seal kit was $25 shipped on eBay. From the other pump, I know I could take it apart as needed without disturbing the highly machined parts or the finely adjusted bits. Cleanliness cannot be overstressed. Fortunately. I have recently repainted my engine, so not a lot of rust, etc.
I disassembled it, removing the governor as a single assembly so it did not need to be recalibrated. The advance device must come off as well as the endplate and transfer pump. One error that could have been catastrophic was the rotor assembly came out with the hydraulic head. I did not recognize this until I had it at the chart table. The rotor came off and the shoe and plunger hit the floor. The plunger is THE piece that has to be perfect. If it had come apart and fallen in the bilge en route to the table, it would have been a big problem. I reassembled the rotor cleaning evrything as perfect as possible, installed the new seal and put it all back together. Did not work, even after a prolonged bleeding effort. Very discouraging. After a night's rest to clear my mind, I took it all back apart, found I had put the shoe in incorrectly, then all back together again. Bled it quickly, and she started without too much trouble. Now she works and does not leak.

Points and lessons learned-
Fooling with a dead pump ahead of time was tremendously helpful.
This was not a rebuild, just a leak fix, but a good experience now that it is over. I do not know if I could "rebuild" it, but I could free a stuck plunger in the boonies.
This particular pump can be taken apart without disturbing the calibrations or timing. The mechanically governed pumps may not be so lucky, I don't know.
Don't drop the critical piece on the sole.
If it does not work, keep at it and go back to the begining.
Having a spare pump at hand to install if it goes wrong can provide needed confidence.
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Old 26-12-2013, 05:45   #82
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

does anyone know what size allen wrench socket needed to remove injection pump? thank you, andy
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Old 26-12-2013, 15:41   #83
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

See other 4108 thread.
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Old 27-12-2013, 17:32   #84
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Quote:
Originally Posted by sanibel sailor View Post
I know this is a rather old thread, but I found it helpful when thinking about attacking my pump, a CAV DPA with hydraulic governor on a Westerbeke W30 (aka 4-91). Mine was leaking between the housing and the hydraulic body. Fortunately, I have very good access, relatively speaking. Cleaned the area, sprayed with ether to remove diesel residue and dusted with baby powder to confirm area of leak. I was reluctant to remove the pump from the engine due to timing challenges although this may have been an unreasonable fear. This was my approach:

Some time back, I picked up a pair of non working pumps on eBay for $100, one with a broken ear on the housing and the other missing the end plate. I disassembled them to gain experience of how they go together, swapped the parts to make one complete unit and sent it off to get rebuilt by the pros at Advance Diesel Systems in Huntsville Alabama. They did not mind that I had fooled with it first. Cost $325 plus shipping. Several other places had quoted $600-750. With a new pump in hand in case of disaster, I was emboldened to proceed. New seal kit was $25 shipped on eBay. From the other pump, I know I could take it apart as needed without disturbing the highly machined parts or the finely adjusted bits. Cleanliness cannot be overstressed. Fortunately. I have recently repainted my engine, so not a lot of rust, etc.
I disassembled it, removing the governor as a single assembly so it did not need to be recalibrated. The advance device must come off as well as the endplate and transfer pump. One error that could have been catastrophic was the rotor assembly came out with the hydraulic head. I did not recognize this until I had it at the chart table. The rotor came off and the shoe and plunger hit the floor. The plunger is THE piece that has to be perfect. If it had come apart and fallen in the bilge en route to the table, it would have been a big problem. I reassembled the rotor cleaning evrything as perfect as possible, installed the new seal and put it all back together. Did not work, even after a prolonged bleeding effort. Very discouraging. After a night's rest to clear my mind, I took it all back apart, found I had put the shoe in incorrectly, then all back together again. Bled it quickly, and she started without too much trouble. Now she works and does not leak.

Points and lessons learned-
Fooling with a dead pump ahead of time was tremendously helpful.
This was not a rebuild, just a leak fix, but a good experience now that it is over. I do not know if I could "rebuild" it, but I could free a stuck plunger in the boonies.
This particular pump can be taken apart without disturbing the calibrations or timing. The mechanically governed pumps may not be so lucky, I don't know.
Don't drop the critical piece on the sole.
If it does not work, keep at it and go back to the begining.
Having a spare pump at hand to install if it goes wrong can provide needed confidence.
Sounds to me like you got it covered. So are you using the pump rebuilt by Advance Diesel Systems or the one u tinkered with? That is a very reasonable price.
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Old 28-12-2013, 06:08   #85
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Allan I removed the pump using a 7/32- 1/4 drive allen wrench socket with a flexible extension for that nasty bolt on the side nearest the block. thank you for your advice! Andy
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Old 28-12-2013, 06:23   #86
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Glad it worked for you. Sorry I couldnt nail down that sochet size for you. I had the extra extensions that I stacked together to get to that bugger from the rear of the engine. I dreaded getting that bolt back in with my mounting config, but really was not an issue.
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Old 28-12-2013, 06:56   #87
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Yeah, it's not too bad with the heat exchanger removed, is there anyone you could recommend to rebuild the fi pump?
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Old 28-12-2013, 17:25   #88
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Re: DIY Injection Pump Rebuild

Andy,
I cant help you there but there has been much written on the repair of that pump. Many rebuild places have been recommended that the customers spoke highly.
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