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Old 06-12-2011, 11:21   #31
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Originally Posted by mbianka

The further I get away from my in board diesel the better I enjoy my time on board. Yes, my electric propulsion system is only four years old but, has required 0 time and 0 dollars for maintenance. IMO not because it's new. It's because it's a simpler system compared to marine diesel it replaced. The parts list would I suspect barely fill one page.
Not to hijack my own thread but is there a thread about your install already? If not could you share some pics and the parts list?
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:31   #32
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

There is really no such thing as a "bad" diesel engine.
Block mounted equipment, such as pumps and heat exchangers can be of poor design or quality, but a diesel engine's block itself must be properly built in order to function / as opposed to a gasoline fired engine that has spark ignition and can chug along burning its lube oil in even low compression or blow-by situations.

A diesel MUST have appropriate levels of compression in order to start up. Thus the name "compression engine".
It must be robust enough to build the needed compression to heat the incoming air, it must be able to continuously handle the compression values and its injection system must function absolutely right on or it will not properly atomize the fuel (and it won't work).

The problem is, a diesel engine can not handle any water or particles in its fuel system / as opposed to a carbureted gasoline engine that can burn a lot of junk before it stops.

The naturally aspirated diesel engines can amass huge service hours if clean fuel oil is used and appropriate cooling is provided.
The old, naturally aspirated engines can run without any electrical power whatsoever (once cranked to start).

The problem is with our over-complicated world that is bent on building everything more complex. That is where the problems start. Today's diesel engines are no more reliable than the gas engine was in a Ford Model A. One tiny little electrical condenser (or firkin computer chip) can render the most beautiful and powerful diesel useless and the boat it is propelling adrift........
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:24   #33
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Not to hijack my own thread but is there a thread about your install already? If not could you share some pics and the parts list?
Dan:

Since you asked. My Electric Propulsion system consists of the following

Motor of course
Key switch
Throttle/Speed control
Battery bank 4 8A4D batteries in series
Battery charger
Controller Box : wires from all of the above connect here along with fuses, battery monitor shunt, and motor controller. You can see a photo of what's inside this controller box here:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: GOING ELECTRIC PART 19: WHAT'S IN THE BOX

and some photos of it mounted on board:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: GOING ELECTRIC PART 20: THE FINAL CONNECTIONS

The whole conversion process I went through is chronicled starting here:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Going electric: Part 1: The why and how
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:43   #34
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

On a small boat like yours going to an outboard will give you a lot of extra room below. I think you will be surprised.
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Old 06-12-2011, 12:54   #35
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

re: DEMARCHAND's comment -
Is the marinized 2-cyl. Kubota 14 hp (Beta Marine) motor able to be hand started?
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Old 06-12-2011, 17:28   #36
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

Dan-
As an aircraft mech no doubt you'd heard the question "If diesel engines are so good, how come they're never used on aircraft?" except of course, there's that Irish? short field cargo job that does indeed run diesels, so it can fuel up in odd places that don't have aircraft support or fuel.<G>

I had the good luck to learn some of my engine knowledge from a man who had multiple PhDs and a list of patents as long as your arm. If you've ever ridden on a diesel-pulled train, a couple of cents of your train fare went to his royalties, they wre that basic and that universal, having to do with combustion engineering. Even with that background he would have said diesels weren't right for everything, they are (were) at their best in steady-state operation, pulling a specific load at a specific rpm and then sitting and doing it all day long without interruption. For varying loads and stop-and-go, he preferred the Otto cycle (gasoline) engine. Not that we were discussing boats at the time.

I think you're spot on about getting rid of raw water cooling. It is used because it is CHEAP and takes less space, so it makes for an easy sell. And the first ten or 20 years of owners will rarely miss it. In the longer term? Yeah, an engine running raw salt water may be rotted out in 20 years while the closed cooled engine will still be in new condition.

I'm surprised to hear aircraft hoses are dated for 0-year replacement. The folks at Goodyear, Firestone, Gates all those nice places tell me five years and that's enough. (You don't think they're trying to sell more hoses, do you?<G>)

Then there's Westerbeke, who still slap red paint over everything including the hoses. WB says all those rubber companies who tell you paint rots the rubber, are wrong. Ahuh. Funny thing, I know a tank commander who said sloppy paint jobs rotted the CBW rubber seals on his tanks, too. He didn't give a damn what it cost, he just wanted seals that worked, 100% of the time. Wasn't his wallet.
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Old 06-12-2011, 17:44   #37
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

My Universal 5424 is 27 years old, and going great. The hour meter stopped working at 3500 hours, an unknown number of years ago. It starts first time, with no smoke. It needs no oil or coolant adding between it's yearly servicing.

I find this performance to be more than satisfactory. If it ever dies, it'll be replaced with the closest design I can find.
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Old 06-12-2011, 18:41   #38
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ex-Calif View Post
Not to hijack my own thread but is there a thread about your install already? If not could you share some pics and the parts list?
The May/June edition of Good Old Boat has a detailed, with photos, description of Joe Steinbergers conversion of his boat to electric power.
Has me thinking, Hmmm!!- Bluestocking is getting a bit much for me now, and I know where I can get a Tripp/Lentsch 29 like Joe's for free---.
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Old 06-12-2011, 19:03   #39
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

mbianka has a good write up on his blog of his conversion.
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Old 06-12-2011, 19:03   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mbianka

Dan:

Since you asked. My Electric Propulsion system consists of the following

Motor of course
Key switch
Throttle/Speed control
Battery bank 4 8A4D batteries in series
Battery charger
Controller Box : wires from all of the above connect here along with fuses, battery monitor shunt, and motor controller. You can see a photo of what's inside this controller box here:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: GOING ELECTRIC PART 19: WHAT'S IN THE BOX

and some photos of it mounted on board:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: GOING ELECTRIC PART 20: THE FINAL CONNECTIONS

The whole conversion process I went through is chronicled starting here:
THE BIANKA LOG BLOG: Going electric: Part 1: The why and how
Thanks for the links

DPFRZ. - i probably need to make a decision soon - maybe next year - LOL

HS - you know 5 yrs also rings a bell. I replaced all the hoses on my tomahawk. They were 20 yrs old.
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Old 07-12-2011, 04:05   #41
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

[QUOTE=hellosailor;832880]Dan-
As an aircraft mech no doubt you'd heard the question "If diesel engines are so good, how come they're never used on aircraft?" except of course, there's that Irish? short field cargo job that does indeed run diesels, so it can fuel up in odd places that don't have aircraft support or fuel.<G>

.Local flying club had a Cessna 150 with a diesel. Mercedes IIRC. I flew right seat once as guest, smooth motor.
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Old 07-12-2011, 05:46   #42
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

[QUOTE=Blue Stocking;833160]
Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Dan-
As an aircraft mech no doubt you'd heard the question "If diesel engines are so good, how come they're never used on aircraft?" except of course, there's that Irish? short field cargo job that does indeed run diesels, so it can fuel up in odd places that don't have aircraft support or fuel.<G>

.Local flying club had a Cessna 150 with a diesel. Mercedes IIRC. I flew right seat once as guest, smooth motor.

No offense, but if an aircraft mechanic had to ask that question and couldn't come up with a dozen instant answers, I'd seriously question his basic knowledge of engine mechanics.
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:14   #43
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Re: Diesels Getting a Bad Rap ?

[QUOTE=Tellie;833192]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blue Stocking View Post


No offense, but if an aircraft mechanic had to ask that question and couldn't come up with a dozen instant answers, I'd seriously question his basic knowledge of engine mechanics.
+1... ranks rigbht up there with if turbines are so reliable...why not all jets?
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Old 07-12-2011, 06:17   #44
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This is a boating forum not an aviation forum but the diesel debate rages on many aviation forums. Thielert(?) I think was pretty successful converting some diesels to high power aviation use, wanted to make race engines or something.

Diesels make a lot if heat so the complexity of water cooling is needed.

For small lightweight GA engines the air cooled opposed gasoline engine has been king for a long time.

Once you get big/heavy enough turboprops and turbofans take over.

Many folks working on the diesel for aviation problem.
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