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Old 14-09-2015, 13:34   #16
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

Walbro great pump. I use Fass pumps for all my diesel applications.Spendier though trouble free forever !
I certainly concur to pressure test and clean keel tank before going forward.



All the Best
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Old 14-09-2015, 14:25   #17
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

I've used these pumps for years for primary pumps to the first stage filters and as transfer pumps.

http://www.amazon.com/Autobest-12D-U...tric+fuel+pump


Plenty of flow and pressure for small displacement diesel engines. I have a bilge fuel tank so I have two installed in series for adequate lift to the filter/water-separator. Can be installed in parallel as a standby, cheap enough to have a couple of extras as replacements.
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Old 14-09-2015, 16:08   #18
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

I have to disagree with much written here. To explain:

First, your diesel engine has a "lift" pump which is intended to pump diesel from the tank to the high pressure injector pump(s) on the engine. It will typically be rated for a lift of a meter or so - not enough to pull from the bottom of a keel tank in most cases. If used in that manner the engine may get fuel starvation or air in the fuel as the tank levels drop; this is a very common problem on boats.

There are two general solutions to the problem: add a booster lift pump above the tank (providing the lift pump on the engine with fuel at low positive pressure ~4psi) or install a transfer pump from the keel tank to a "day" tank which is mounted beside or above the engine and thus keeping the lift pump operating within spec. These two scenarios call for different pumps!

The excellent Walbro pumps are lift pumps. (The Autobest pump is also a lift pump.) They have a relatively low flow rate at low pressure, using a diaphragm pump and pressure control. When operating you can hear a tick-tick sound as the solenoid pumps the diaphragm. I used these for years to provide diesel to my heater until the ticking got the better of me and I arranged a gravity feed day tank (silence is golden!). They make very poor transfer pumps due to their low flow rate, but can serve if you are very patient. Note that they are designed to use the same hose sizes as elsewhere in the fuel supply system.

For a diesel transfer pump the best pumps to use are vane pumps. The one I have been using for the last 20 years (with no servicing required) is a Jabsco 23870 pump: http://www.pumpvendor.com/media/jabs...870_series.pdf It gets the job done quickly and reliably. They are plumbed in using 5/8"-3/4" hose. I highly recommend this approach.

I have no experience with the demands of fuel polishing - you would need to determine the required flow rate from the filter specs and buy an appropriate pump.

Greg
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Old 14-09-2015, 16:15   #19
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

For those of a more frugal nature consider this for a transfer pump: Diesel Transfer Pump - Save on this 12 Volt Transfer Pump

Greg
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Old 14-09-2015, 16:36   #20
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

I am trying to standardize on these pumps for everything.

Whale Gulper 220 Diaphragm Pump — 3/4in. Ports, 200 GPH, 12 Volt Motor, Model# HD1552 | 12 Volt Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment

Apparently Northern Tool is the only U.S. source for the nitral, diesel compatible, model.

We have a very deep keel tank. I use this to suck diesel through a 2 micron Racor 500 into a day tank. Works.

Can also be used as a bilge pump.

By standardizing on one pump it is easier to carry a spare, or swap pumps if the need arises.
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Old 14-09-2015, 16:59   #21
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I am trying to standardize on these pumps for everything.

Whale Gulper 220 Diaphragm Pump 3/4in. Ports, 200 GPH, 12 Volt Motor, Model# HD1552 | 12 Volt Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment

Apparently Northern Tool is the only U.S. source for the nitral, diesel compatible, model.

We have a very deep keel tank. I use this to suck diesel through a 2 micron Racor 500 into a day tank. Works.

Can also be used as a bilge pump.

By standardizing on one pump it is easier to carry a spare, or swap pumps if the need arises.

Thanks for posting this! I didn't know it existed (should have checked Whales site). We're doing the same... already have two 220s for bilge sump pumps and one for the shower. I think it's a great idea to add this to do fuel transfer between the keel, wing tanks and day tank.

Thanks again

Matt
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Old 14-09-2015, 17:14   #22
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

Fun,

If you call Whale they will sell you a kit to convert your "standard" pump to nitril for diesel. You can use the standard pump for a while, but the diagram will not last.

How's the boat coming?
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Old 14-09-2015, 17:27   #23
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

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Fun,

If you call Whale they will sell you a kit to convert your "standard" pump to nitril for diesel. You can use the standard pump for a while, but the diagram will not last.

Did you ever get the price for this? I do have an extra 220 kicking around that could be used for this.

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How's the boat coming?
O.K.

One 4'x8' sheet of 1/4" aluminum already installed.... one 4'x4' sheet of 3/16" still needing to get replaced.

We've gutted down to bare hull, and we're now just waiting for the welding to be completed before new insulation gets sprayed in.

Matt
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Old 14-09-2015, 17:57   #24
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

I don't recall the exact price, but it was cheaper to buy a new standard pump and get the nitril stuff from Whale then buy a nitril pump from Northern. Very reasonable.

Re Daze Off, sorry to hear that, but not totally unexpected I guess. Replacing that amount of plate is surprising.
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Old 14-09-2015, 18:19   #25
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

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Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I don't recall the exact price, but it was cheaper to buy a new standard pump and get the nitril stuff from Whale then buy a nitril pump from Northern. Very reasonable.

Re Daze Off, sorry to hear that, but not totally unexpected I guess. Replacing that amount of plate is surprising.

Thanks,

We figured if there is any corrosion in an area at all (we ultrasounded the entire boat), it's better to cut it out and replate now while the interior is removed vs years from now and having to refit again. We've gone a bit overboard, but with everything else we are doing, I want the hull like new too.


Matt
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Old 14-09-2015, 19:26   #26
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hpeer View Post
I am trying to standardize on these pumps for everything.

Whale Gulper 220 Diaphragm Pump — 3/4in. Ports, 200 GPH, 12 Volt Motor, Model# HD1552 | 12 Volt Pumps| Northern Tool + Equipment
.
.
.
By standardizing on one pump it is easier to carry a spare, or swap pumps if the need arises.
I have been using the Gulper 220 for gray water (galley sink pumpout) for 20 years, and find it is better than anything else I have tried (in fact it has been great). I plan on using one for a shower pumpout, and possibly another for a low-flow bilge pump in combination with a high volume centrifugal pump. However I would be reluctant to use it for diesel transfer, for two reasons: 1) the plastic pump body will probably not meet Marine UL requirements (think the metal heat shields added to Racor 500s for approval) and thus might not pass survey, and 2) it operates at 1/3 the flow of a proper vane pump. You may not care about the approval, and the decrease in fire resistance is not likely to change the outcome of a fire aboard. Also, being more patient is usually not much of a problem on a sailboat, so flow rate may not be important. Still, with a proper solution available at only a little more expense I recommend the vane pump. You can always use a spare 220 as an emergency backup if fitted with nitrile - I wouldn't (and don't) carry spares for the vane pump. [Edit: I did have the Walbro pump that was used for the heater supply, which could have been used as either a lift pump, or a very slow transfer pump, in a pinch. No longer. Good to know about the nitrile parts for the 220.]

I do agree with your effort to standardize the pumps where possible. I built my boat in the late '70s and '80s, at a time when Whale was changing their designs every few years. I used to have two versions of their galley foot pumps - now just the latest version - and two versions of their 1-1/2" bilge pumps, all requiring different spares. Plus two more 1-1/2" from two different manufacturers, for a total of 4 spares kits required for just the 1-1/2" manual pumps. Aaaargh. Since I built the boat around the equipment it is not an easy matter to just change out for a single design. It's on the list...

Greg
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Old 15-09-2015, 08:35   #27
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Re: Diesel transfer pump : suggestion for make / model?

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Technically filling your day tank is not considered to be polishing. With polishing you would typically pump your fuel through your filter at a relatively high pressure for several hours, often on a timer but not necessarily. If you don't return to the same tank you are drawing from the tank you are sending the fuel to will overflow through the vent. When filling your day tank you would monitor the tank & turn the pump off before it's full. If you leave the pump on for the day tank it will also overflow through the vent unless you have an overflow valve that prevents this from happening.
I agree here. I helped a friend of mine build his steel boat that had the same arrangement of tanks, keel main tank and 15 gal day tank. we designed a series of valves that would allow the day tank to be filled with out worry of forgetting. we used an off the shelf fuel pump from the auto parts store that required about an hour to fill the day tank. the procedure was to open the overflow valve on the day tank that feed back to the keel tank and then turn on the transfer pump. we often forget about it but the worst that happens is polished fuel (it pumps through a Racor filter). the fill time increased as the keel tank level gets lower. this has worked very well for this setup.
Jim
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