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Old 25-05-2018, 16:23   #1
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Diesel fuel self bleeding system

I searched previous postings and could not find any addressing my question,however might have overlooked it and if has been addressed please let me know.
Am dealing with a new for me older boat and the issue of filters changes and bleeding am comfortable for now using my prior experience,by chance and free time ran into this article and wonder if any body has added this to an existing not related to the Kubota based engines.

An automatic fuel bleeding system - Ocean Navigator - May/June 2010

Seems easy (right)to build?
thanks
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Old 25-05-2018, 16:40   #2
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

Interesting, though many modern diesels are partly self bleeding anyway. My Nanni has a fuel return from just before the injector pump that should (in theory) act in a similar way to the one in the article, using the lift pump and a pressure regulating valve.
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Old 26-05-2018, 13:11   #3
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

Adding an electric fuel pump either as a replacement for the stock pump or just for filter changes or bleeding makes it easy. Less than $20 on ebay.

Considering the company behind the system (Waterway Power Center - HOME PAGE) has no mention of the system I think maybe it wasn't a big seller.
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Old 26-05-2018, 15:56   #4
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

right
I think they sell those to the Nany, Kubota, as part of their engines? but not sure if can be installed as part of an added on?
My thinking was,if the solenoid picks up any bubble coming in from the tank by way of primary filters,that could save some grief when under way,such as a defective fitting,or a new leaking hose?
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Old 27-05-2018, 10:22   #5
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

A primer bulb for an outboard engine does the same thing. It is far simpler and cheaper.



If you have to bleed the system at any time other than when changing filters something is wrong with your fuel system.
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Old 27-05-2018, 20:43   #6
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

On our old diesel Yamaha I have bypassed the engines original fuel system and installed an an electric pump with a separate SUV filter both upstream and downstream of it.

The upstream filter sorts out the bulk of the garbage and water using gravity. The line upstream of the pump of course is in suction when working, so that is when air gets into the line as well as some being picked up from the tank itself when sloshing around at sea.

The downstream filter is inverted so that air in the system is trapped in the glass bowl, easily seen and expelled under pressure through the bleed tap. No air can enter the pressurised downstream section of the line.

This DIY system has worked without a hitch for the last 15 years including a lot of rough water and gives great control over the management of the fuel line.

... may be helpful.
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Old 27-05-2018, 21:06   #7
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

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Originally Posted by Pigpen Pete View Post
On our old diesel Yamaha I have bypassed the engines original fuel system and installed an an electric pump with a separate SUV filter both upstream and downstream of it.

The upstream filter sorts out the bulk of the garbage and water using gravity. The line upstream of the pump of course is in suction when working, so that is when air gets into the line as well as some being picked up from the tank itself when sloshing around at sea.

The downstream filter is inverted so that air in the system is trapped in the glass bowl, easily seen and expelled under pressure through the bleed tap. No air can enter the pressurised downstream section of the line.

This DIY system has worked without a hitch for the last 15 years including a lot of rough water and gives great control over the management of the fuel line.

... may be helpful.

Did you mean Yanmar? I don't think Yamaha makes diesels. If you have mounted a Racor 500 type filter upside down it will not separate out the water. These were not designed to run inverted. Doesn't the water cutoff float ball stop the fuel flow if it is inverted?



If you are getting air in you fuel system something is wrong. Don't do a workaround. Fix the problem. Problems don't get better, they only get worse.
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Old 27-05-2018, 21:07   #8
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

yes PigPen Pete
it is
somehow I did not make myself clear when started the post,I am not interested on how to purge the air when changing filters,already established that.
The most common problems when under way re fuel is either dirt clogging one of the primary filters,a vacuum gauge may help and a new filter is all it takes.
However is the unexpected entry of air by way of a failing fitting,a failing primary filter or many times an older hose cracking,or chafing or whatever,in those situations after as many filters you have the engine continues having trouble that is why I was thinking along the lines of the original article.
I will be interested on your system if you could draw a schematic.
I imagine your first Racor works as both filter and water separator,while the second filter by been inverted works only as a filter and the bowl is there to trap the air? If so,quite ingenious.
Been drifting with a dead engine in a windless night in the middle of a busy shipping lane has been imprinted in my head.
thank you
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Old 27-05-2018, 21:31   #9
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

Quote:
Originally Posted by stormalong View Post
A primer bulb for an outboard engine does the same thing. It is far simpler and cheaper.
If you have to bleed the system at any time other than when changing filters something is wrong with your fuel system.
I agree with Stormalong, have that for 6 years on my diesel RV. And if one really has to have an electric pump, see here:
https://www.ebay.com.au/sch/i.html?_...l+pump+12+volt

Bleeding the fuel lines, either with a squeezy bulb or such electric pump is easy.
BTW, one can use such electric pump, with a few diverting valves, also to polish fuel, albeit it slowly, two birds with one stone. I have that on my boat.
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Old 27-05-2018, 22:32   #10
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

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Originally Posted by davil View Post
yes PigPen Pete
it is
somehow I did not make myself clear when started the post,I am not interested on how to purge the air when changing filters,already established that.
The most common problems when under way re fuel is either dirt clogging one of the primary filters,a vacuum gauge may help and a new filter is all it takes.
However is the unexpected entry of air by way of a failing fitting,a failing primary filter or many times an older hose cracking,or chafing or whatever,in those situations after as many filters you have the engine continues having trouble that is why I was thinking along the lines of the original article.
I will be interested on your system if you could draw a schematic.
I imagine your first Racor works as both filter and water separator,while the second filter by been inverted works only as a filter and the bowl is there to trap the air? If so,quite ingenious.
Been drifting with a dead engine in a windless night in the middle of a busy shipping lane has been imprinted in my head.
thank you
.................
Yes youíre right.. the downstream filter is fitted primarily to sort out air problems although as you can see from the pic ( its the upper of the two filters) it does actually do some further cleaning. The first filter (lower in the pic)is primarily a water trap and gunk and particle catcher.

The engine is a 3 cylinder 36 hp one Yamaha marketed in the 70ís for third world fishing dories. Unbolts down to the crankshaft with a couple of spanners - wet sleeve liners which can be lifted out when the head comes off so you can replace the rings through the top, - designed for a fisherman and his blacksmith mate, not to be touched by an expert. They wouldnt make it today and few people would want it.
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Old 27-05-2018, 22:34   #11
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

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Originally Posted by Pigpen Pete View Post
.................
Yes youíre right.. the downstream filter is fitted primarily to sort out air problems although as you can see from the pic ( its the upper of the two filters) it does actually do some further cleaning. The first filter (lower in the pic)is primarily a water trap and gunk and particle catcher.

The engine is a 3 cylinder 36 hp one Yamaha marketed in the 70ís for third world fishing dories. Unbolts down to the crankshaft with a couple of spanners - wet sleeve liners which can be lifted out when the head comes off so you can replace the rings through the top, - designed for a fisherman and his blacksmith mate, not to be touched by an expert. They wouldnt make it today and few people would want it.
.. sorry , you need to rotate the pic to the right- the Lucas filter is the upper one.
chs pete
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Old 27-05-2018, 22:46   #12
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

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.. sorry , you need to rotate the pic to the right- the Lucas filter is the upper one.
chs pete
and sorry should also have added that with the filters shown I needed to fit the tubing contrary to the way they are marked so that in both filters the fuel would pass through the bowl first before passing through the filter. May not be necessary with other filters but something to check.
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Old 28-05-2018, 00:48   #13
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

Because my fuel tank was down in thew keel and consequently the fuel needed a lot of lifting I often experienced air-in-fuel problems which I finally solved by drilling and tapping the bolt on the banjo fitting where the fuel line went into the main fuel pump and fitting a spigot and a hose into the fuel return line. The hole in the spigot was drilled with a 0.5 mm twist drill. Worked well.
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:10   #14
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

thank you Pete
sorry fell asleep last night
thank you very much
neat
if it worked for you over 15 years is good for me
is amazing how we are obligated to think outside of the box
one of the things I appreciated sailing over a span of 50 years is developing new skills and learning to be self sufficient some times it comes down to just survival
take care
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Old 28-05-2018, 04:21   #15
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Re: Diesel fuel self bleeding system

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Originally Posted by RaymondR View Post
Because my fuel tank was down in thew keel and consequently the fuel needed a lot of lifting I often experienced air-in-fuel problems which I finally solved by drilling and tapping the bolt on the banjo fitting where the fuel line went into the main fuel pump and fitting a spigot and a hose into the fuel return line. The hole in the spigot was drilled with a 0.5 mm twist drill. Worked well.
thanks
another way to deal with my original question/concern
take care
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