Diesel, ethenol and older tanks

[By Invitation]

I heard a rumor today that the newer diesel fuels have some ethanol added and this is causing problems with older plastic and fiberglass tanks causing the filters to clog and degrading the fuel tanks. Anyone ever heard of this "new" problem? Is it real?

[hellosailor]

"E-Diesel is currently an experimental fuel and is being developed by many companies, who can receive federal ethanol tax credit when blending ethanol with diesel. "

Not likely to be at your local station in the US. Not yet.

http://www1.eere.energy.gov/biomass/...le_diesel.html

[Pblais]

It's gasoline that is giving marine users a bad time. You can add a second addative to help negate the bad side effects in a marine enviroment. The new problem is that gasoline has been mandated to have ethanol added, so there is no alternative for anything that uses gasoline. All the stories are mostly true. Many have been exagerated to a frenzy but it is an issue you need to deal with if you use gasline marine engines.

So far it's only in the early stages for deisel. With the offering of tax incentives the manuafacturers are only too happy to be able to make more profit.

Some interesting facts on that website.

e-diesel contains 7.7 to 15% ethanol. and has a "light increase in operating costs due to a slight (7-10%) mileage decrease"

Always worry when a government report includes adjectives like that...

Lets see I start with 100 gallons of diesel fuel and assume I get 10 miles per gallon...

I add 10% ethanol to the fuel and now I have 110 gallons, but I get 10% fewer miles per gallon, or 10*0.90 = 9 MPG

So the original 100 gallons of fuel would move me 100 * 10 or 1000 miles

My new 110 gallons of fuel (which still contains the original 100 gallons of diesel) moves me 110 * 9 = 990 miles.

Sounds like a great plan.

And that's using the number that the proponents of the plan are proposing!!!

[Pblais]

I wouldn't get too worked up just yet as ethanol in deisel would be a tax break for the oil companies. That is the reasearch is a write of and other good deals that follow. The PR isn't all that bad and they get the tax break now even if no products ever result. Any oil executive has to just jump on board for the short run.

The only serious issue is if they manadate the fuel just as has been done with gasoline. Personally I have a problem with making food into fuel. It's counter productive in terms of the whole national farm policy. It really isn't any more environemntally friendly considering the fertilizer, pesticides, and fuels consumed to produce the fuel. Rather than work out a decent trade bill they keep the harvest surpluss and pay all the subsidies then turn around and use more tax breaks to get rid of the execess product. Bio fuels are just a scam.

[Chief Engineer]

Ethanol can be produced from a multitude of biomass. Much of it can be waste products. i.e. bagasse from sugar cane, there is a grass which also has a high yield for ethanol, corn based ethanol is derived from animal feed type corn, not niblets. Dio-Diesel was marketed here a few years ago....but it was done by a couple of scam artists and it left a bad taste in peoples mouths (not literally)

The ethanol in Gasoline is rearing its ugly head in my area. Not only in older fibreglass tanks but older tanks that the ethanol is disolving the accumulated varnish that has been there for years.....

As it is winterizing time, many of my customers are opting to drain their tanks to avoid having this fuel sit all winter.....My hope is that they dispose of it properly..........LEGAL gasoline disposal around here is about 10-20 dollars A GALLON

[PBzeer]

Another bright idea from the ECO crowd, that never seems to learn of unintended circumstances. Such as the fact it takes more energy to make ethanol, than the ethanol produces.

[Stevens 47]

I am removing my stainless diesel fuel tanks and building in epoxy in their place. Is there any issues with ethanol added to diesel damaging the epoxy.

Jack

[Alan Wheeler]

You need a special epoxy, not the everyday stuff you use for boat biulding. Special chemical "proof" formulations are made. You will need to talk to a manufacturer of Epoxies to get the advice and product you need. Neplex in NZ is the only manufacturer I know, but do a google and you should come up with a few. Tell them what you are doing and they should be able to help.
Question though, why are you doing this and not staying with SST???

[Stevens 47]

Thanks Wheels,

I am doubling the tank from 57 US gallons. The tank is located in the bilge. The designer of the boat recommend epoxy as being longer lasting than SS. His quote was that the SS tanks where always the Achilles heel of boat. Nigel Calder in his book Boatowners Mechanical and Electrical Manual recommends building tanks in place with epoxy. I also can get a % increase in volume due to not having any air around the tank, I will build it in place, admittedly not allot. I was some what hesitant originally as I have to remove part of the teak and holly sole. I have how ever figured that out. I do want to expand my fuel capacity and casting place is also a better cost option.

I have been using Jeffco epoxies for my rebuild I will see if they have a resin that will resist Ethanol.

Jack

[hellosailor]

I was reaeding last week that the ethanol revolution in the US just got a swift kick in the butt. Apparently all the fuel pumps that were UL-certified for "ethanol" were only tested and certified for E-15, not the E-85 that was planned for use in them.

Ooopsie. UL has withdrawn the approval and everything has to be retested, there are major issues with the higher ethanol content corroding metals, plastics, and rubbers.

And if someone can tell me what national companies still sell unadulterated gasoline...please! I feel like a Chicago bootlegger trying to find whisky that only has whisky in it. Shouldn't be so hard to find!

[Pblais]

Gasoline - very bad stuff. Best to avoid it.

[Chief Engineer]

I am sure that that is a jesting remark......Not like the fearmongering years ago when some Diesel Mfrs went after the A-4 because of the gasoline "boogeyman". Fires due to gasoline, in this area, were due to
improper refueling practices and one guy who tried to pump out his gas tank with a drill pump. Seems as if we have quite a few diesel fuel spills up here due to poor bilge maintenance...i.e. not wiping up spilled diesel fuel after changing filters/bleeding engines.

I love A-4's, Palmers,....they help me pay the bills. I love they way my Palmer 27 putts......My customers know when I am around....the putt is distinctive.

[Chief Engineer]

I have never been sold on the idea.............I just don't like having fuel below the waterline...............cleaning the tank could be awfully hard.
I have seen some rather flat plastic tanks that have been fitted below the cabin sole. But I suppose if you are motoring more than sailing, you will need the fuel capacity.