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Old 10-10-2017, 15:49   #46
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Cadence-
"MY wife's car is approaching 4 years old and 7,000 miles it has had three changes. That short duty cycle going a 1 1/2mi. to the store is worse than highway mileage."
Some time ago I had a routine where I was doing short trips. Burned through mufflers & exhausts at a surprising rate, because condensate was rusting them out. Sent out an oil sample and was warned about condensate and fuel contamination, caused by those short trips. Changed my routine so that if the car got used, it was run for at least 20 minutes, need it or not. And all of a sudden, the exhaust didn't rot out, the oil samples came back with no problems....Your wife may be a perfect EV candidate.(G)

Kenomac-
If the you within the engine maker's recommendations, then the next limit is from the oil maker. Mobil1 now says "12 months or 15,000 miles" (although I'll swear the original product said 12 months or 25,000 miles, not that it matters to me) and every oil will say something similar. Probably the one-year limit from the oil company would be your guide. They used to state in writing that they would pay for any engine damage found to be from an oil failure, as long as you followed their recommendations. So, there's good reason not to exceed them, unless warranty is not a concern and you've got an outstanding lab report.
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Old 10-10-2017, 16:42   #47
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Change the oils in the boat--use the under-used old oil in the bobcat. Might as well get your money's worth.
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Old 10-10-2017, 16:45   #48
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Have you dry tested your oil?
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Old 10-10-2017, 18:52   #49
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Interesting question which I have been curious about for my Perkins M90 with a 3 gallon oil pan.

I have used the same oil analysis lab (Blackstone) since I bought the boat and have found their reports extremely useful and often enlightening. I could go through the various issues they pointed out on the main, generator, and tranny but that would be off topic.

I am currently doing a single extended run on DELL 400 straight 30wt to see when the oil suggests changing it. (Including TBN analysis). So far at 125 hours all is great, this is a low hours per year engine (about 50-75) and so taking a couple of seasons. Goal is to have a good target hours for cruising.

Was changing twice per year to clean out previous owner issues.

Worth a one time test then back to normal once per year or.100 hours.

I always do an oil analysis, has paid.off
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Old 10-10-2017, 19:13   #50
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Figure 6 in this report suggests you would change every 400 hours.

If your use is infrequent maybe change the filter more often?

Optimizing Oil Change Intervals in Heavy-Duty Vehicles
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Old 10-10-2017, 21:05   #51
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Very informative thread! We run a Yanmar 4JH-TE (turbocharged, 55hp)) and an Onan (Kubota eng) genset. Both owners manuals show the oil change interval based on hours and ID what wt oil to use.....neither suggest nor offer using synthetics as an option. In addition, I've been told by several different Yanmar mechanics to never use synthetic oil in a Yanmar, claiming the engine is not designed for it and things like oil seals (ie, the rear main seal) will leak if synthetic is used. So I'm surprised how many evidently use it! Do your owners manuals allow/suggest it's use? Have you found any down sides...or benefits... from its use? Also, FWIW, we too always change at the end of each season, to get rid of the acids, unburned fuel, and other contaminants and to prevent the bottom end from sitting in that dirty oil over the layover....even if the eng hrs are not up to the change interval. Diesels seem to like clean fuel, clean oil, and clean air for long lives.
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Old 11-10-2017, 01:36   #52
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Guys, it really varies from engine to engine as to what's the best. Trying to say that one change interval will suit them all is loco. Since the amount & types of stresses that each engine (type, size & use) puts on it's oil differs.

Older engines = less precise machining tolerances on it's parts, lesser quality alloys as compared to new engines, ditto the chemical & metalurgical treatments applied to said alloyed parts. Older engines are designed to run at lower RPM's, tend not to be turbocharged... and need their oil changed more often, using different grades of oils than do newer engines... By design.

Newer engines run at higher RPM's, have much more closely machined parts tolerances, better alloys & heat/chemical treatments of same. Etcetra, etc. And as such they often will run well on thinner oils (lighter weight) than designs that are 20 or 50 years old.

Witness modern cars that run on 5W-20, this, for an entire year without an oil change. And that said engines need tuneups only every 50k or even 100k miles. If you'd have told most tool guys this 20 or 30yrs ago they'd not have believed it possible. But we certainly have such engines now. So you can't treat all engines the same. Unless, that is, you're happy changing the oil fairly frequently on them all. Which the engines surely won't complain about this level of love.
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Old 11-10-2017, 05:38   #53
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by botanybay View Post
Interesting question which I have been curious about for my Perkins M90 with a 3 gallon oil pan.

I have used the same oil analysis lab (Blackstone) since I bought the boat and have found their reports extremely useful and often enlightening. I could go through the various issues they pointed out on the main, generator, and tranny but that would be off topic.

I am currently doing a single extended run on DELL 400 straight 30wt to see when the oil suggests changing it. (Including TBN analysis). So far at 125 hours all is great, this is a low hours per year engine (about 50-75) and so taking a couple of seasons. Goal is to have a good target hours for cruising.

Was changing twice per year to clean out previous owner issues.

Worth a one time test then back to normal once per year or.100 hours.

I always do an oil analysis, has paid.off
Not that a mechanic might tell you but a dry oil test can tell you much of what an Oil Analysis Program would - particularly for Cruisers in remote places. Run engine 5-10 minutes to temperature transfer 2-3 drops from dipstick to a white sheet of paper. Let dry a couple hours in a warm place. Once dry examine carefully. If you are doing an AOP do this in parallel for comparison.
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Old 11-10-2017, 06:05   #54
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Good points by all, the main thing, do what works best for you! The most important point, change your oil and filter annually, no matter how little usage/hours you've run your engine.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:13   #55
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Having the oil tested is more effective than a scheduled time for extending engine life. Keeping the oil clean can double or triple the change interval. I've been using bypass or other additional filtering since the 60s. Oil savings has more than paid for the filtering. And I consistently get more hours between overhauls than others. Now I centrifuge the oil and only change if the oil test call for changing.
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Old 11-10-2017, 07:21   #56
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

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Originally Posted by UNCIVILIZED View Post
Guys, it really varies from engine to engine as to what's the best. Trying to say that one change interval will suit them all is loco. Since the amount & types of stresses that each engine (type, size & use) puts on it's oil differs.

Older engines = less precise machining tolerances on it's parts, lesser quality alloys as compared to new engines, ditto the chemical & metalurgical treatments applied to said alloyed parts. Older engines are designed to run at lower RPM's, tend not to be turbocharged... and need their oil changed more often, using different grades of oils than do newer engines... By design.

Newer engines run at higher RPM's, have much more closely machined parts tolerances, better alloys & heat/chemical treatments of same. Etcetra, etc. And as such they often will run well on thinner oils (lighter weight) than designs that are 20 or 50 years old.

Witness modern cars that run on 5W-20, this, for an entire year without an oil change. And that said engines need tuneups only every 50k or even 100k miles. If you'd have told most tool guys this 20 or 30yrs ago they'd not have believed it possible. But we certainly have such engines now. So you can't treat all engines the same. Unless, that is, you're happy changing the oil fairly frequently on them all. Which the engines surely won't complain about this level of love.
You get an "A" for best post so far.

I just got back from the store where I purchased some 10w-40 for the Westerbeke and Agip 15w-40 synthetic turbo diesel for the Yanmar. Going to spend the one hour of labor (my own) and Ä60 (oil) mostly because I already have a 14 year supply of oil filters on hand.

I really do think this is mostly oil industry driven consumer consumption, where we're let to believe horrible things will happen if we don't change the oil. But I also have some extra time on my hands.... so why not waste a few euros.
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:13   #57
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Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

You change your oil for the same reasons you brush your teeth.
Likely you can get away for years without brushing your teeth, but they will last longer if brushed daily, and best to brush them before you go to bed, so the food which forms acids doesnít sit on them all night while you sleep. Of course brush them again in the morning, it wonít hurt, can only help.
Best to change oil before the engine is stored so the acid doesnít sit on the engine parts all during storage.
However oil has what is called TBN, or total base number, which is the measurement of how much acid it can neutralize, so in theory if you put it away with old oil and you have a good high TBN oil, it will neutralize the acid. Itís just too cheap and too easy not to change oil often, I do it every 100 hours for both the gen and main, why not? Its not much money or much work.

When you get home, get the bobcat hot, then change its oil, why not?
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:40   #58
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

We change the oil and filter in the lake boat (Yanmar) before putting her on the hard each fall. The ocean boat (Perkins 4.236) oil and filter change every 100 engine hours (8 quarts!)
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Old 11-10-2017, 08:47   #59
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenomac View Post
You get an "A" for best post so far.
Thanks!

I really do think this is mostly oil industry driven consumer consumption, where we're let to believe horrible things will happen if we don't change the oil. But I also have some extra time on my hands.... so why not waste a few euros.
Changing the oil on our family car became one of my chores at about age 12, & it was a favorite of mine. Particularly as the car always seemed happier after recieving said TLC. And I didn't mind the driving lessons that came with as perks of the job.
But I am convinced that the routine oil changes that we did every 3,000 miles is one of the big reasons that the car was completely trouble free for the entire 130,000 miles that we had her. And this was back in the early 1980's, when most cars odometers didn't go past 99,999 miles, as few people expected them to run long enough to need another digit on said gauge in that era.

I also look at it from a point of view akin to aircraft maintenance. Where at 50hrs, the plane, & her engine especially, gets some TLC at said interval. Single engine planes especially. And I think that engine issues are fairly rare with them due to this.
Also, 50hrs of run time equates to about 3,000 miles on a car, plus or minus.

So I figure, when in doubt, just do it. Particularly given that for a lot of boats the cost of a repower can be on par with the boat's value. And if you are in a position where doing this is necessary, you'll never get than money out of her when you sell her.

Plus which I've seen some nasty heads on automobile engines at 50,000 miles, when their owners weren't the types to pay attention to routine maintenance like oil changes. On some of them it was amazing that the valve train still functioned at all, as gummed up as they were. And turbocharged engines need such maintenance a lot more than their non-boosted cousins. Which, fitting a turbo timer* can add a lot of lifespan to such engines. Ditto adding a similar timer on the exhaust fan for the engine compartment. So that it assists the engine with cooling off for quite a while after the engine is shut off.

*A turbo timer is a device which keeps the engine running at idle for a pre-set (often user adjustable) amount of time, after you switch the engine/vehicle "off". So that the bearings in the turbocharger itself have a good supply of oil flowing through them while the engine cools down. Otherwise, due to the large amounts of heat that turbochargers produce, & how hot they get, their bearings can be prone to coking or gumming & seizing up. Coking being where the oil in them breaks down, & or, cooks (or full on combusts) after the engine is turned off. Unless something is done to cool things off post shutdown.

Mazda quit making the 3rd gen RX-7's as they were losing vast sums of money due to the turbocharged engines in these cars self destructing from the heat from & in their turbochargers. Particularly the latent heat in the engine's various components & systems, once the cooling systems shut off when the engine's were shut down.

Good quality oil can mitigate this somewhat, as it has higher combustion & breakdown temp's. But frequent oil changes also play a huge role in keeping things healthy. And oil needn't look filthy for it to have lost a large portion of it's protective & lubricating properties. Especially in cleaner burning engines.
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Old 11-10-2017, 10:13   #60
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Re: Diesel Engine Oil Change Frequency?

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Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Having the oil tested is more effective than a scheduled time for extending engine life. Keeping the oil clean can double or triple the change interval. I've been using bypass or other additional filtering since the 60s. Oil savings has more than paid for the filtering. And I consistently get more hours between overhauls than others. Now I centrifuge the oil and only change if the oil test call for changing.
But your about 26qts per engine per change.
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