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Old 29-03-2014, 12:20   #16
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

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Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Taking the head bolts out....the Tech manual gives no order but I've read I can crack the head if I do it wrong. Any words of wisdom here? Thank you for the previous comments.
Heads are bolted on inside towards out, or sometimes outside towards in, and in a X pattern... Opposite to come off... Do it in 3 steps... back off each bolt 1/4-1/2 turn... I would start with the outer bolts... Outside corner to opposite corner, straight up/down on end to other endbolt of same side then other opposite corner... repeat x pattern on inner bolts moving towards the center... I have a manual on another computer I think... Start 10 to 9 and so on with this picture....

generic pattern attached... this is to bolt on, so go opposite...
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Old 01-04-2014, 20:09   #17
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

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Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Taking the head bolts out....the Tech manual gives no order but I've read I can crack the head if I do it wrong. Any words of wisdom here? Thank you for the previous comments.
Removing a head is opposite of tightening... So start at each end, working from both ends to center, alternating left and right sides of engine too. Start by loosening each nut/ bolt 1/4 turn, working toward the middle (from each end). Then repeat the sequence again and again with 1/4 turns till the nut/bolts are loose.


If you have a third smaller row of nuts/bolts, do those first, again working outside to inside.

For those with working engines, you could bump the starter a time or two to break the seal between the head and block. That works like a champ. But for a rusty engine, wacks with a wood mallet around the head will be needed to break the head gasket loose.
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Old 01-04-2014, 20:51   #18
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

That's just OCD,

A head has no need to follow any order in removing the bolts, plain and simple.

The only reason to tighten in an order, called center out, is to make sure the head gasket, compresses equally around the fire rings.

Other wise no issues.

Lloyd

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
Removing a head is opposite of tightening... So start at each end, working from both ends to center, alternating left and right sides of engine too. Start by loosening each nut/ bolt 1/4 turn, working toward the middle (from each end). Then repeat the sequence again and again with 1/4 turns till the nut/bolts are loose.


If you have a third smaller row of nuts/bolts, do those first, again working outside to inside.

For those with working engines, you could bump the starter a time or two to break the seal between the head and block. That works like a champ. But for a rusty engine, wacks with a wood mallet around the head will be needed to break the head gasket loose.
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Old 01-04-2014, 22:33   #19
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

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That's just OCD,

A head has no need to follow any order in removing the bolts, plain and simple.

The only reason to tighten in an order, called center out, is to make sure the head gasket, compresses equally around the fire rings.

Other wise no issues.

Lloyd
I do find it odd that yanmar, cummins, etc., list a sequence of bolt/ nut removal in their shop/service manuals, when disassembly of the head is required. Perhaps you can advise them that they don't really need to do it that way...
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Old 01-04-2014, 23:14   #20
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

I have at least 3-4 of the above mentioned. not one word in B&W.

To that matter what possible issue could there be. Maybe if you were dismantling the head HOT. That would be a wisenhimer.

Again, the center out torque sequence for assembly, is to assure that the fire rings, are properly seated.

Lloyd

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Originally Posted by sailorchic34 View Post
I do find it odd that yanmar, cummins, etc., list a sequence of bolt/ nut removal in their shop/service manuals, when disassembly of the head is required. Perhaps you can advise them that they don't really need to do it that way...
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Old 01-04-2014, 23:42   #21
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

SC,

He may be thinking of older Volvo's that have a head per cylinder. The manual has a tightening sequence but says nothing about disassembly.

Paul
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Old 02-04-2014, 09:23   #22
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

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SC,

He may be thinking of older Volvo's that have a head per cylinder. The manual has a tightening sequence but says nothing about disassembly.

Paul
I expect your right. I did actually check (and read) the Yanmar gm series shop manual and at Dodge/Cummins too, before my previous posting.
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Old 02-04-2014, 10:53   #23
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

You guys can argue tear down procedures but it is pretty far from the problem. If you don't know enough about engines to tear one down, you are going to have way more trouble putting one back together on the dock in Panama. Who knows about the transmission? There are repair shops all over down there but it's not that easy to get everything together. Bus trips across the country, spanish, hoodlums etc..
We looked into getting a new Yanmar in Panama and the prices are not that bad.
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:31   #24
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Oddly, I've actually did a full tear down and rebuild of my yanmar 3gm30F in my cockpit last summer. So proper engine rebuilding is not unknown to me.
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Old 02-04-2014, 17:44   #25
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

And if you were in Panama, I'm sure you could help him out, but based on his initial questions, the knowledge to overhaul isn't there, I assume he means to have it done.
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Old 04-04-2014, 11:38   #26
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Head is off....exhaust, intake, fuel lines, radiator. Banged the devil out of the pistons ...to no level of movement.

Declared dead this morning at 10:40 cst. I am now deciding to rebuild this old girl or buy a used/remanufactured beast in the US and have shipped down. It looks like I can have the shipping done pretty reasonably and quickly. David in Panama has a place that has a good rep for rebuilding diesels in the marine community down here. They need the engine I.D. to know what rebuild kit to price. Any idea where this might be located?? Westerbeke 4-107 as far as I know....deceased party.
One mechanic says...buy a new Yanmar and come into this centuries technologies. I can get the engine swapped down here for 1.5K$ or 40$/hr. While the engine is out I can remove 40 yrs worth of wires and find all/most of the additional work necessary to be done that I now know not. And so it goes. Any words of wisdom are appreciated...especially the location of the magical engine ID.
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Old 04-04-2014, 12:02   #27
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Head is off....exhaust, intake, fuel lines, radiator. Banged the devil out of the pistons ...to no level of movement.

Declared dead this morning at 10:40 cst. I am now deciding to rebuild this old girl or buy a used/remanufactured beast in the US and have shipped down. It looks like I can have the shipping done pretty reasonably and quickly. David in Panama has a place that has a good rep for rebuilding diesels in the marine community down here. They need the engine I.D. to know what rebuild kit to price. Any idea where this might be located?? Westerbeke 4-107 as far as I know....deceased party.
One mechanic says...buy a new Yanmar and come into this centuries technologies. I can get the engine swapped down here for 1.5K$ or 40$/hr. While the engine is out I can remove 40 yrs worth of wires and find all/most of the additional work necessary to be done that I now know not. And so it goes. Any words of wisdom are appreciated...especially the location of the magical engine ID.
This is classical moment for a repower; however, be sure that you are not flushing money down the drain. I mean -- be sure that the investment in repowering is roughly, at least, reflected in an increase in the value of the boat afterwards. Otherwise, you are better off selling or scrapping the boat and buying another one with a functional engine. It's simple math; however many sailors don't do it, and regret it later.

A repower is a delightful thing; kind of like buying a new car. A complete fresh start. Yanmar motors are very good, but as a Yanmar owner, I would suggest looking at Beta and Nanni first. Simpler and more reliable than Yanmar.

Don't forget peripheral expenses of a repower. You will not be able to just drop a new engine in. You will need probably to redo the engine beds, you will probably need a different prop shaft, you will probably need a different prop, and you will want to replace the stern gland and cutless bearing. Don't forget about these little details, which can really add up in cost.
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Old 13-04-2014, 20:31   #28
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Not sure if I should start a new post or continue this one. Good brains here so will see.

Looking at a used Perkins 4-108...low hours. I was not able to find any numbers on the transmission in the boat. The "new" Perkins does not come with a transmission. So..... Do I buy the engine and get it moving while I take the dead guy out, along with transmission? My thinking...is that I can discover the tranny make/model and get one in fairly short order....AND get it shipped to Panama. I believe the transmission is offset by about 2" ...best guess. I must haul the girl to check safety issues...through hulls and shaft packings and see about blisters. Would there be any advantage to doing this operation before or after engine replacement? I can tow her to the haul out and back, no problem. thoughts?
I'll need help (some experience) to disconnect the tranny/shaft and pull the engine out. But it will be very helpful to have access to the bilge and engine room to clean and paint.
I can see getting a lot of money into her...but i'm not a perfectionist...she will be a coastal cruiser and not intended for rough weather. Future may be....Cruise San Blas and if all goes well...perhaps north a few miles.
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Old 14-04-2014, 04:56   #29
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddiefuego View Post
Not sure if I should start a new post or continue this one. Good brains here so will see.

Looking at a used Perkins 4-108...low hours. I was not able to find any numbers on the transmission in the boat. The "new" Perkins does not come with a transmission. So..... Do I buy the engine and get it moving while I take the dead guy out, along with transmission? My thinking...is that I can discover the tranny make/model and get one in fairly short order....AND get it shipped to Panama. I believe the transmission is offset by about 2" ...best guess. I must haul the girl to check safety issues...through hulls and shaft packings and see about blisters. Would there be any advantage to doing this operation before or after engine replacement? I can tow her to the haul out and back, no problem. thoughts?
I'll need help (some experience) to disconnect the tranny/shaft and pull the engine out. But it will be very helpful to have access to the bilge and engine room to clean and paint.
I can see getting a lot of money into her...but i'm not a perfectionist...she will be a coastal cruiser and not intended for rough weather. Future may be....Cruise San Blas and if all goes well...perhaps north a few miles.
Eddie,

I would start a BRAND NEW THREAD titled "looking for a used/new 4-108 or other repower"... That way people know what you have and may offer options...

I'd get the engine/tranny out, clean up your space, and do your shaft log/packing all on the hard... If you set the engine on the hard, you'll need to splash and settle before you do any final alignment...

Post a link to your new thread here, so we can follow ya!
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Old 28-04-2014, 17:24   #30
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Re: Diesel Engine Evaluation

Repower Westerbeke 4-107 and tranny

A migration to a new Thread. All thoughts are very welcome.
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