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Old 28-02-2012, 05:18   #46
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

red off road and undyed fuel are often exactly the same from the same tank...driver adds it depending on delivery site
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Old 28-02-2012, 07:40   #47
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

That does make sense, it's about taxes for on road use not fuel composition. If low sulfur pollutes less, that, and refinery costs, suggest it would all be essentially the same. Maybe not refinery costs if it is more expensive to produce low sulfur version.

So that makes me wonder, if sulfur is a lubricant, and older diesels would miss the added sulfur, would it not make sense to consider adding some lubricant to my old 1989 Yanmar?

I use Biobor JF and there is a bottle of something else that was on the boat when purchased that I have not used. Need to look to see what that is.

Would it make sense to add some type of lubricant to the older diesels?

I recall in the '70s it was the valve seats that missed the lead in gasoline. I went to some trouble replacing the seats in my 73 Superglide when building the engine.

1800 hours on my Yanmar, and I need it to last as long as possible.
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Old 28-02-2012, 13:17   #48
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

O.K here we go,,The European Union introduced limits on particulate emissions for diesel engines,as did some states in America, this began as Euro 1 (California)set of standards, as the engineers reached it, the next stage was brought in until we reached Euro 4 level and some manufacturers were unable to reduce emissions further by mechanical means and brought in the common rail diesel fuel technology which could be controlled by a series of micro chips, CRD, CDI etc abreviations are used to identify such engines. Ultra low Sulphur fuels were introduced to further reduce emissions from diesel engines.
Red diesel is basic diesel fuel with a dye (Quintinrazahole) added to signify that it's for off road, agricultural use at a rebated level of tax. I'm not intimately familiar with the rules in the States to answer in respect of Marine use. In the EU it is illegal to use red diesel in a private boat, you must buy road(white)diesel at the full rate of tax, currently around 1.40 Euro a litre. you are very lucky in the states with fuel prices but as sure as God made little apples it will keep on rising.
You can now understand the emergence of more production of single engined craft and a consequential drop in value of twin engined vessels.
Hopefull this explantion is not too long winded.
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Old 28-02-2012, 16:39   #49
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by psneeld View Post
red off road and undyed fuel are often exactly the same from the same tank...driver adds it depending on delivery site
This is true.

(except where our company fills, a different employee controls the dye; it keeps the drivers honest)
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Old 28-02-2012, 16:56   #50
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

In the USA marine fuel is dyed red, but there is no law against using undyed fuel in your boat from a road station where the taxes are higher. Theoretically, the undyed fuel is taxed less and should be cheaper, but often you can find a road station that sells cheaper than the marinas in New England, which mark everything way up. However, it is illegal to use the dyed fuel in your car or truck on land.
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Old 28-02-2012, 17:06   #51
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Here's an alphabetical list of diesel fuel additives registered with the EPA in the US.

5968 in fact, that's a lot of snake oil.

Alphabetical List of Registered Diesel Additives | US EPA
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Old 07-03-2012, 05:32   #52
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by chrismol View Post
There is a product on the market that does miracles to fuel, it burns of all carbon deposits and creates after using it for a while a 10 to 20% fuel reduction.
If you would like info about this product feel free to contact me, and I will hook you up with the supplier of this product.

If it comes to oil, never ever put any additive in oil, you might use an additive that would react in a negative way with any of the additives that is already present in oil, this than could create foam.
It would ruin the engines, go for a high quality Marine Engine Oil, one of the better ones is Ravenol from Germany, they do have a Marine Line.
As a matter of fact, I am the sole distributor of Ravenol Marine Oil in the UAE.

Hope this info is of help to you.
All the best.
Please look up the fuel additive...I'm sure the ENTIRE world would love to know of a 10-20% reduction in fuel costs...

Better yet...e-mail it to me if you would like to become a billionaire.
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Old 07-03-2012, 10:35   #53
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

I've heard of magnets being fitted, liquid additives to fuel etc, as a design engineer who worked in Rolls Royce R&D I can put my hand on my heart and tell you they are just a load of ballcocks. A diesel engine correctly tuned needs no additives if it's fuel supply is clean, at all. Unless it's a heavy(black) oil engine leisure marine diesel engines are based on light van or truck engines and they only need the correct viscosity,if it's a turbocharged engine it needs a series 3 type(to withstand the heat and speed of the turbocharger). Look in your engine manual for the manufacturers oil preference. Correctly serviced a boats diesel engine can last in excess of 30 years and then be rebuilt to do the same again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it !
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Old 18-03-2012, 22:02   #54
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Diesel fuel in the US has changed a lot in the last few years. Traditional advice should be re-examined.

Partly due to the switch to ULSD (ultra low sulphur diesel) that began in 2006 and became mandatory in 2010, US diesel rarely meets the Yanmar minimium cetane specification of 45. European cetane is higher - often over 50. The fuel also lubricates less well. This is why Mack Boring (the largest US Yanmar distributor) now recommends additives to boost cetane and additional lubricants for most (maybe all) Yanmars.

I'm following their advice.

Carl
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Old 19-03-2012, 18:53   #55
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

As a fuel tank manufacturer, my posts about additives were, and are, strictly about the TANK, not the engine. MIC, (microbiological induced corrosion) is causing tanks across North America to fail, and spill fuel. Mobile tanks are less prone to this phenomenon which is believed to be, at least in part, due to sulpher reduction in fuel. Mobile tanks which have water in them, tend to slosh around and inhibit microbial growth, while stationary tanks create pockets of microbes at the fuel/water interface, secrete acid, which can etch through solid steel. I still recommend fuel additives which specifically inhibit microbial growth in the tank. I cannot speak about the relative merits of fuel additives on engine performance.
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Old 20-03-2012, 00:14   #56
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

The points made by CarlF and shorebird are valid, if I may respectfully add that if your happy to buy additives then go for it. To increase cetane rating simply add proportionate % of parrafin, NEVER petrol(gas). Static fuel tanks generally have their contents used at a lower rate and the 99.9% are'nt fitted with a sump and water drain valve causing the effects mentioned by shorebird. Microbiological growth occurs at the fuel/water interface, truck & plant etc very rarely suffer because the fuel is turned over ie. used faster and any microbes don't get time to proliferate and are simply burned off. Water in the fuel/condensation on little used boats with no drain valve on the diesel tank are the perfect breeding ground for microbiological growth. Diesel engines are very tolerant and if the fuel is stored correctly and delivered to the engine perfectly clean they never need additives and there are rarely any problems. As an instance by way of explanation I crossed the Irish sea in a force 5/6 running on a blend of 75% refined maize oil(cooking oil) and 25% parrafin in a Perkins 4236. If you are not experienced in multi-fuel engines I am simply making a point of the versatility of the diesel engine.
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Old 04-03-2016, 15:37   #57
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Irish rambler View Post
... As an instance by way of explanation I crossed the Irish sea in a force 5/6 running on a blend of 75% refined maize oil(cooking oil) and 25% parrafin in a Perkins 4236. If you are not experienced in multi-fuel engines I am simply making a point of the versatility of the diesel engine.....
Irish Rambler,

Is your cooking oil new or recycled?

I read some ppl collect used cooking from fast food kitchen, filter them and keep them in a separate tank.They fired up the diesel engine with diesel and switch over to cooking oil. Before shut down, they would switch back to diesel for a while.

I am not in a brave position to try any other fuel on my 1986 yanmar yet :-)
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Old 05-03-2016, 01:11   #58
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Hello ericoh88.
I only use new cooking oil, rapeseed or maize oil, you may have to preheat the engine but once the engine fires it'll run quite happily. Many of the older pre HDI Mercedes taxi engines ran on it neat, I prefer the added paraffin as it helps to reduce the viscosity and flow through the filters.
Used cooking oil needs special treatment, it needs to be heated to 80' Centigrade and then filtered through a 100 micron filter.
When being used for cooking the process produces acid, which means that the filtered cooking oil now needs to have an alkali to neutralize the PH.
Two thing make acid more aggressive, temperature and pressure which is why you hear horror stories of cooking oil burning injectors nozzles.
Treated properly used cooking can be a relatively 'free' fuel.
Given the low price of fuel in the US I would stick to Agricultural/Plant diesel.
I hope this helps.
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Old 05-03-2016, 02:52   #59
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

For years now we have been running Hawes conditioner in all our diesels.
Was actually the one suggested by Kubota when we bought the skid steer.
Run it in Cummings, Cat, John Deere, Kubota and Case engines.
Just add it right to the storage tank.
One of the reasons it is suggested is no alcohol.
Coloured fuel and clear are the same thing, no road taxes on coloured fuel.
No diesel boat now, next one will be a Kubota based engine.
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Old 06-03-2016, 14:13   #60
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Re: Diesel Additives ?

Irish Rambler, please define paraffin in American English.
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