Diesel Additives ?

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by Rakuflames

I also use a cetane booster. I'm new to diesels and I just don't want extra problems.

Then don't use the "magic" additives. Your engine is probably designed to run off the fuel as you get it from the pump, without requiring any boosters. Your engine manual will tell the fuel spec requirements.

ciao!
Nick.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Condensation? But that just results in water on the bottom of the tank where it can be drained or it ends up in the bowl of the water separator of the fuel filter(s).

I would not recommend to lock water molecules into the fuel with an additive. I don't think engine manufacturers like it either but I'm too lazy ATM to Google that

ciao!
Nick.

Agree with the biocide (although it's more complicated for new diesel guys than just pouring it in and hoping for the best) and up way north in the winter it often should be coupled with anti-gelling additive.

The jury is still out on imrproving cetane and lubricity...can't hurt to help either one to a point...but many additives are worse than nothing at all which was the point of my post.

Many additives are marketing/money makers versus help

[westsail42]

I can tell you that my Yanmar 3GM DEFINATELY benefits from some of the cetane boosts (I have used Stanadyne and Racor additives).

After running through a couple tankfuls of Diesel #2 WITHOUT these additives (slipped my mind), one day coming back we stopped by the fuel dock to top up. I filled the additives before the top up to get a good mix. The Yanmar ran noticeably better on the way back to the slip (it was already warmed up running to the fuel dock).

Someone had told me there is something about Diesel #2 made in the PNW, particularly western Washington, seems to be a little different than elsewhere. Not sure if that is true or what the differences would be. I always thought SAE/API specs/requirements pretty much meant it was the same everywhere.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by westsail42

I can tell you that my Yanmar 3GM DEFINATELY benefits from some of the cetane boosts (I have used Stanadyne and Racor additives).

After running through a couple tankfuls of Diesel #2 WITHOUT these additives (slipped my mind), one day coming back we stopped by the fuel dock to top up. I filled the additives before the top up to get a good mix. The Yanmar ran noticeably better on the way back to the slip (it was already warmed up running to the fuel dock).

Someone had told me there is something about Diesel #2 made in the PNW, particularly western Washington, seems to be a little different than elsewhere. Not sure if that is true or what the differences would be. I always thought SAE/API specs/requirements pretty much meant it was the same everywhere.

Sure YOUR diesel doesn't suffer from something else? Classic "someone told me" story.
Did you bother to look up the details?
It's your diesel and money so do whatever you like...I'm just passing along a consensus between people that dabble in diesels ALL the time for people who don't.

[westsail42]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Sure YOUR diesel doesn't suffer from something else? Classic "someone told me" story.
Did you bother to look up the details?
It's your diesel and money so do whatever you like...I'm just passing along a consensus between people that dabble in diesels ALL the time for people who don't.

Well Mr psneeld, I SAID

Not sure if that is true or what the differences would be. I always thought SAE/API specs/requirements pretty much meant it was the same everywhere.

So I did not try to pass that off as FACT. I said it was something I heard. I think most people would understand that.

Let see, I do my own regular valve adjustments, test (and sometimes replace) injectors. Nevermind water pumps and heat exchangers. I have my tank cleaned every few years.

Is that enough "dabbling in diesels" FOR YOU????

On the Racor and Stanadyne additives, I have had recommendations from a number of LOCAL MARINE diesel mechanics.

I'm just passing along a consensus between people that dabble in diesels ALL the time for people who don't.

[psneeld]

.......... .....

[westsail42]

Originally Posted by psneeld

.......... .....

Another classic "I'm THE diesel expert on the internet" story???

It's your internet and money so do whatever you like...

.......... .....

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by westsail42

Another classic "I'm THE diesel expert on the internet" story???

It's your internet and money so do whatever you like...

.......... .....

Didn't say I was...I posted a USEFUL link for some...an independent test that I have no interests in....if it doesn't apply to you fine..

but passing along something like "my engine sounds better" with an additive...well...we will let others decide which posts they want to use for advice....

[westsail42]

Originally Posted by psneeld

Didn't say I was...I posted a USEFUL link for some...an independent test that I have no interests in....if it doesn't apply to you fine..

but passing along something like "my engine sounds better" with an additive...well...we will let others decide which posts they want to use for advice....

No, but you seem to have no problem challenging information posted here by others, no matter how brief or anecdotal it may be presented.

Sorry, I don't have time to collate, prepare and publish twelve years of experience with my own diesels here.

we will let others decide which posts they want to use for advice....

Great idea. Perhaps remember it next time before challenging someone else's sparse three sentence input.

More on topic:

I am leery of some of the fuel additives out there and DO NOT think they add much (Marvel Mystery Oil being one).

The brands I have used, IMHO, are not fly-by-night rip-offs. Parker/Racor is a BIG BIG name in fuel filtration and have a highly regarded reputation. I don't think they would put their name on a fuel additive without checking it out first. But that is my opinion.

[shorebird]

Regardless (irregardless?) of which additive works or doesn't work, it is difficult to target different micro-organisms with the same chemical without contaminating the fuel. The one thing "bugs" do share is a need for water, and keeping water out of your tank is still the first of a "two-prong" assault on microbial proliferation. (The second is still fuel additives.) Water enters through tank venting, seepage from a poor seal on your fill outlet, and, although most will deny it, through fuel suppliers.
Keeping the tank topped up is the best way to minimize water ingress through condensation, but detecting and removing water is still the best way to keep bugs at bay. Marine tanks should actually have a "water draw-off" tube installed, but few, if any do. Having said that, if you can get a tube of any kind to the bottom of your tank, even if only through the fill, you can detect water using a water detection paste on the end of a tube or dip-stick. The paste turns bright red in the presence of water, but remains brownish if no water is present. If water is detected, it can sometimes be removed by pumping or siphoning water from the bottom of the tank, until pure diesel runs out. If the tank can be sloped towards the point where the pump tubing is in the tank, so much the better. (3 heavy friends on the swim grid?) If I were to "build a better marine tank" I would slope the bottom towards a small reservoir, and install a water draw tube from the top of the tank.
Cheers,
David

[s/v Jedi]

I think the last Westsail boats were built decades ago, so if that engine is original it might well benefit from a cetane booster. If two different opinions based on experience or research collide, there is mostly another factor or reason involved that makes the difference, like in this case the age of the engine.

Most if not all information posted here about not using boosters is for modern (newish) engines. Some information even states that these additives can damage engine built from 2007 onwards.

cheers,
Nick.

[s/v Jedi]

Originally Posted by shorebird

If I were to "build a better marine tank" I would slope the bottom towards a small reservoir, and install a water draw tube from the top of the tank.

Most professional tanks have a sump with drain or a draw pipe from above to the bottom of that sump.

I simply drain a bit from the sump to check of water. I have an empty tank for over a year now and the sump is still bone dry. I think that there is no condensation in diesel tanks in the tropics...

ciao!
Nick.

[psneeld]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

Most professional tanks have a sump with drain or a draw pipe from above to the bottom of that sump.

I simply drain a bit from the sump to check of water. I have an empty tank for over a year now and the sump is still bone dry. I think that there is no condensation in diesel tanks in the tropics...

ciao!
Nick.

A lot of people have been trying to communicate that the condensation "crisis" is overblown. More and more people are leaving their boat gasoline tanks empty over the winter because of the ethanol scare. In the spring they find so little water the average water separating filter will take care of it or the fresh ethanol will absorb it.

[Nicholson58]

Originally Posted by s/v Jedi

While I completely agree with this, it has nothing to do with biocides which are actually recommended by all marine diesel engine manufacturers.

Marvel Mystery Oil can hurt new engines.

ciao!
Nick.

So far, no problems and no additives on our boat. Tanks were opened and mechanically polished to bright SS after we bought. The diesel gurus at Torresens in Muskegon say add nothing and keep the water OUT and you will not have problems. Interesting, they have identified the frequent culpret for water ingress is a bad O-Ring in the deck fitting. They keep bags of them at the fuel dock and replace them when they see cracked rubber.

[Hud3]

Originally Posted by Nicholson58

...they have identified the frequent culpret for water ingress is a bad O-Ring in the deck fitting. They keep bags of them at the fuel dock and replace them when they see cracked rubber.

This is a very good suggestion. I replaced my diesel and water deck-fill O-rings every year.