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Old 06-02-2014, 21:11   #31
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

I had a problem with my Sigmar diesel stove. I had reinstalled it after the previous owner had removed it to renovate the cabin.

It was not getting enough fuel. I had used a piece of "rubber" fuel hose, probably 20 feet long.

Turns out the cause of the problem was reduced flow due to a combination:
- long run and diameter of hose
- the temperature. The viscosity of diesel goes up as the temperature goes down.
- head, the day tank was not high enough above the burner to have sufficient pressure to push the fuel through the tank

On a warm day, no problems; cold days, BURR.
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Old 07-02-2014, 01:03   #32
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

Lloyd, I get it. Proper installation is essential and mine has some flaws. I have figured out several possible improvements and a couple things to check out. Some have no easy solution on this boat. Your comments have been most helpful. Thanks for the manual link.

You are correct, I can't blame the manufacturer if my installation is not right. I can, however, dislike their products, which is my feeling so far. Time will tell if that changes depending on what it takes to get this thing working well enough to rely on offshore and what I learn about options other than Dickinson. Would love to find a brand of diesel combination cooking/heating/water heating stove that is less critical and prone to malfunction in varying conditions. Don't know if that exists, so will keep working on this one since I have it. If that turns out to be the Dickinson after I figure it out, I'll buy you a beer. Oh, hell, I'll buy you a beer anyway!

Would like to hear experience from others on sailboats between 35 and 45 feet.

thank you all.
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Old 07-02-2014, 05:36   #33
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

[QUOTE=Vino the Dog

Would like to hear experience from others on sailboats between 35 and 45 feet.
thank you all.[/QUOTE]

Evidently you haven't read my posts, its 20 degrees here this am and the Dickinson is keeping me toasty warm. Sailboats have much different set of issues than powerboats, i.e. most are constrained by flu length. I sail my boat in the winter with the heater burning and do not want the flu interfering with the boom. Dickinson sent me their Low Sulpher Diesel
baffle, it takes about 5 seconds to insert this in the burner box, sits over the existing super heater, you will never get the stove to work correctly without this addition if you are forced to use LSD. You will also have to run the combustion assist fan full time to get proper combustion, you simply don't have the stack length to use the stove without it, (This is as per Dickinson).
I was initially disappointed about having to run the fan as I wanted to be able to conserve as much battery as possible for use away from the slip, but in the end it is not really a big deal and the heater works well. There is definitely a bit of a learning curve. The fan speed is adjusted slightly upward to give more air as you increase fuel consumption, and I have had the heater working during Hurricane Sandy with absolutely no backdrafts, 50 mph winds.

I would be more than happy to speak with you to try and help you sort out the issues with the oven, you can send me a message and we could set up a time to talk.
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Old 07-02-2014, 09:59   #34
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

Recent heating conditions
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:26   #35
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

The snow should make for some good insulation
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Old 07-02-2014, 10:41   #36
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

Most certainly does
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Old 07-02-2014, 13:19   #37
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

cburger,

DID read your post. I read all of them and think about every one as it applies to my boat. As I said, found several things to check out and am experimenting with what I can right now. I asked you what the special baffle looks like. I would like a description or see a photo, Is there a picture of it on Dickinson site? Also, how did you deal with the fresh air feed tube? Looks like your boat maybe more similar to mine in that respect.

Comparing the pics from Dickenson and info that Lloyd sent = my stove only came with a small flat plate gizmo that fits 2" over the fuel inlet hole but not the higher elevated section of the "superheater" that protrudes above the burner ring - so I fabricated the higher section out of stainless last night and stuck it in there. That alone immediately improved the burning characteristics, but still won't burn clean and sucks down into the pot at higher settings.

Today is a little warmer (the snow is helping insulate the boat) so plan on shutting it down long enough to clean the pot, ream out the feed tube, check the metering valve setting, and modify my home-made superheater since I got the top ring slightly too low. Then give it another shot. I will get the barometric damper, but they are not available locally, so that is pay money and wait for it, so not something I can do today.

If I can get a photo of that low sulphur baffle, I will fabricate one of them unless it is beyond a basic sheet metal project, which I doubt. Meanwhile, work with what I got, and continue to research, including options to Dickinson. Learning a lot about these stoves from this, but don't have enough knowledge yet to deciside if I want to stick with the Dickinson or swap out to something else. By the time I head offshore, I will know every system on this boat, and be able to give my crew reasonable assurance they can stay safe and warm, as far as one can give such assurance on a boat.

Again, I thank ALL of your for your comments.

P.S. Never had LSD since the 60s, but back then a pot burner was much easier to keep going.
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Old 07-02-2014, 15:11   #38
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

That thought crossed my mind as well. As far as keeping the crew warm, they do know it's a boat right? I suppose if you get far enough south you can keep them warm.
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Old 07-02-2014, 15:50   #39
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Vino the Dog View Post
cburger,

DID read your post. I read all of them and think about every one as it applies to my boat. As I said, found several things to check out and am experimenting with what I can right now. I asked you what the special baffle looks like. I would like a description or see a photo, Is there a picture of it on Dickinson site? Also, how did you deal with the fresh air feed tube? Looks like your boat maybe more similar to mine in that respect.

Comparing the pics from Dickenson and info that Lloyd sent = my stove only came with a small flat plate gizmo that fits 2" over the fuel inlet hole but not the higher elevated section of the "superheater" that protrudes above the burner ring - so I fabricated the higher section out of stainless last night and stuck it in there. That alone immediately improved the burning characteristics, but still won't burn clean and sucks down into the pot at higher settings.

Today is a little warmer (the snow is helping insulate the boat) so plan on shutting it down long enough to clean the pot, ream out the feed tube, check the metering valve setting, and modify my home-made superheater since I got the top ring slightly too low. Then give it another shot. I will get the barometric damper, but they are not available locally, so that is pay money and wait for it, so not something I can do today.

If I can get a photo of that low sulphur baffle, I will fabricate one of them unless it is beyond a basic sheet metal project, which I doubt. Meanwhile, work with what I got, and continue to research, including options to Dickinson. Learning a lot about these stoves from this, but don't have enough knowledge yet to deciside if I want to stick with the Dickinson or swap out to something else. By the time I head offshore, I will know every system on this boat, and be able to give my crew reasonable assurance they can stay safe and warm, as far as one can give such assurance on a boat.

Again, I thank ALL of your for your comments.

P.S. Never had LSD since the 60s, but back then a pot burner was much easier to keep going.

No fresh air tube required for the Dickinson Newport heater, I don't know about the oven you will have to refer to the instruction manual, if there was the same type of unit in the boat in the past and it functioned properly without it kinda doubt it, in any case I would try the most simple first before I cut another hole in the cabin, plenty of fresh air coming into my boat thru open dorades and various cracks. All the LSD baffle is a very thin 3" circular plate on legs that sits on top of the burner ring and radiates heat back down into the burner pot to aid in combustion of the LSD. Between that and using the combustion boost fan full time no more problems.
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Old 07-02-2014, 21:51   #40
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

cburger, were you talking about the Newport heater all along? Totally different animal!

The baffle you are talking about is exactly what my Pacific cook stove has, obsolete in THESE stoves, replaced with the "superheater". NO WAY will I start cutting holes without knowind EXACTLY what will work. Most simple first, I agree. Experiment with things I can fabricate and understand the principles, second. Fresh air as you say, very seriously doubt this is the problem, but willing to fabricate an experiment with a fan that DOES NOT require cutting a hole to see if this may be something to consider. NOT giving Dickinson another few hundred dollars on a crap shoot.

After another day flocking with this thing, my original opinion of Dickinson stands. May be OK for a fishing boat or sail boat over 50' that has a pilot house or other way to get a 7'+ stack, but for a 41 footer, I will not recommend their cook stove at all. NO ONE in their right mind will want to go through what I have been (and others support) to get one of these working. ...and because of their advertisements and customer support, I will not spend another dollar with their company, even for something that DOES work.

On the support side, a Dickinson stove on a 40 foot sailboat will work just fine, unless it is too hot, too cold, or you want to cook something.
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:12   #41
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

I understand that you oven is a different model than amy heater, however if it is a potburner the operation principles are the same. The low sulpher diesel baffle goes over the superheater and works in conjunction with the assist fan to properly combust the fuel and get the proper draw with the short flus that sail boaters are forced to use by design. In the evolution the superheater was being used before the LSD baffle and no where in any of my readings did I ever see that it has been considered obsolete, page 33 of the "Pacific" manual clearly indicates use of the superheater required.
6” Burner (Bristol, Bering, Adriatic & Pacific)
There are two components in the 6” burner that must be correctly placed for the heater to operate properly. The burner ring must be placed at the top of the pot so the outside edge of the ring fits into the groove in the top of the pot. Ensure that the ring fits in evenly and snugly all the way around the pot and that all of the oval shaped slots are clearly visible. The second component is the superheater. The superheater is placed through the burner ring and will sit on the bottom of the burner with the round 2” disc sitting 2” up from the bottom of the burner. The bottom of the superheater should sit flat on the bottom of the burner to radiate heat to the fuel coming in through the center of the superheater washer. This will need
to be kept clean to allow fuel to flow through it. The ring of the superheater will sit up above the burner ring where the flames are and radiate heat down to the vaporizing fuel. The 2” round disc sitting 2” above the bottom of the burner deflects the hot rising vapor up the sides

I went back and reread your original post and see that you have had problems in high winds, it was recommended to me by Dickinson and knowledgeable users that the "H" cap was the best way to go, regularly use mine in very high winds. Additionally the proximity of your cockpit enclosure to the flu may be interrupting draw and causing backdrafting of the oven.

If you have replaced your older Pacific with a newer Pacific oven and the older unit worked well for you on your vessel, I would be looking at anything that has changed on the boat since the last unit and see if these changes may be causing problems. Good Luck


http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/Specsheets/LowSulfer.pdf
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Old 08-02-2014, 06:43   #42
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

Operation manual for Pacific Oven:

http://www.dickinsonmarine.com/Manua...ual-2011-2.pdf
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Old 08-02-2014, 11:31   #43
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

cburger,

I understand the principles are the same. However, the dynamics are different, and consistent with those principles, the ability of each particular unit will vary substantially.
The principles of a mouse and a tiger are the same too, but in every respect other than the basic theory of operation, they are totally different animals.

Thanks for the spec sheet on the LSD baffle. Unfortunately, the line representing the baffle does not show what it actually looks like. Am I correct in assuming it is a flat top plate supported by legs, similar to the bottom plate part of the superheater?

I will fabricate one of those today and give it a try. In their list of indications of incomplete burn due to low sulphur, all of them fit my situation except hard carbon. The soot in my stove is very light and fluffy. Quite easy to clean (as long as one considers a couple hours of hands and arms covered with black, stinky stain, and a vacuum cleaner dedicated to only that purpose forever, easy).

What I said is obsolete is the low, flat plate (maybe called a superheater when they were used?) that came with the aluminium top model that DOES NOT extend above the burner ring. Figured that out from re-reading the manuals and Lloyd's suggestions, and fabricated the upper part to add to my lower part.

After adjusting the height of my home made superheater, cleaning the pot, and reaming out the fuel inlet hole yesterday, it burned MUCH better last night, but still dirty, incapable of getting to higher heat levels (as the "indications" list state i the LSD baffle spec sheet). Can't tell if the improvement was due to the work I did or the fact that it is much warmer and the wind is not blowing.

Didn't have time to check and adjust fuel flow in the metering valve, because the flimsy little electrical contacts on the fan broke while attempting to get the plug out of the fuel inlet pipe and I had to adapt a muffin fan to replace the factory installed one.

Three more things I do NOT like about the Pacific Cook stove;

1. The very fragile electrical connections which broke on the fan (way too flimsy for something wired in a place where one will have to put your hands and possibly a tool for regular maintenance).

2. Screws holding the fan on are square drive and an uncommon size. (I have square drive bits of different common sizes, none of which fit the screws used, so took over a half hour to remove the two screws holding the fan.)

3. There is inadequate room to access the fan, and fuel inlet plug around the copper fuel lines. (which I can probably solve somewhat by reshaping the fuel lines, had I known when installing this thing that this would be required regular maintenance.)

The more I work on this thing, the less I like it. The more I read through Dickinson manuals, the more I find they have omitted critically important disclosures and warnings that would let people with sailboats in the 35-45 foot range know what kind of added work, cost, and damage can (and in many cases, probably will) happen if one does not have EVERY MINUTE DETAIL EXACTLY CORRECT.

On this boat so far, I have managed to successfully replace both fuel tanks and all fuel lines, design and fabricate a dual Racor fuel polishing manifold, rewire the entire electrical system, re-plum the water system, install dual battery packs, hook up new electronics, repair damaged wood work, replace failed deck caulking, replace halyards including making eye splices in double braid, install safety netting all around including setting four new stanchions, rip out and remodel the entire galley, build custom cabinetry in the foc’sle to convert it into a tool room, climb the mizzen and install a new radar dome, and too many other little projects to list.... BUT, I DO NOT HAVE THE INTELLIGENCE OR SKILL TO GET A DICKINSON COOK STOVE OPERATING PROPERLY!

Now, you tell me WHY would I recommend any Dickinson project to anybody?

From the testimony and help several of you have offered on this thread, I will modify my scathing discontent for Dickinson with this phrase "... but I know they work real well in some applications, particularly fishing boats, and those people love them."

I WILL get this thing working. AND I will get rid of it as soon as I find something better suited to the kind of boat I have.
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:03   #44
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

[QUOTE=Vino the Dog;1462797]cburger,

I understand the principles are the same. However, the dynamics are different, and consistent with those principles, the ability of each particular unit will vary substantially.
The principles of a mouse and a tiger are the same too, but in every respect other than the basic theory of operation, they are totally different animals.

I give up, sorry I ever got involved here!
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Old 08-02-2014, 12:39   #45
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Re: Dickenson Cook Stoves

cburger,

Your frustration is not necessary. I already got the frustration part covered. Your comments have been helpful, particularly the LSD baffle stuff. I re-read back through your posts and found where you did describe it, so I will make one and try it out.

Thank you very much for getting involved and trying to help. Dickinson certainly never tried as much as you guys have, and I am still working on the problem. With my boat looking a lot like yours... covered in snow, it takes time to do all this stuff and a lot more time to wait for new parts like the H-style cap and barometric damper to get here. Meanwhile, I keep working on what I can.

Considering what I have experienced, you can easily understand why I don't like their cook stove or the difficulty figuring out how to make it work. We don't have to like the same stuff. That does not mean that I don't appreciate the help I have been getting here from folks I have never met and who have never been on my boat.

I can't thank you guys enough and I will be happy to buy a beer for every one of you I do meet.
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