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Old 13-01-2017, 16:28   #1
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Damaged from non use?

Hello everyone, I am in the process of working on a 1973 37 ALBERG MK II YAWL. I don't have a lot of history on this boat but have been told by a surveyor the boat is in great condition, and though it needs a bottom job it is water ready. That being said he did not check the engine or transmission. The boat is on the hard and has been there for 4 years. I spoke to the marina about having the engines oil changed, and the fuel system serviced. The manager told me I should have the engine swapped out because the transmission has been "dry" for so many years. Does this make any sense? Or should I look elsewhere for a marina? Thanks.

BTW the engine is a Perkins Perama m35 again I do not know the service history or hours of this engine. I only know it is not original to the Alberg.
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Old 13-01-2017, 16:33   #2
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Re: Damaged from non use?

There is theoretical merit to the dry comment, however there is no practical.

The manager sounds like someone who used to sell used cars while wearing polyester.
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Old 13-01-2017, 16:35   #3
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Re: Damaged from non use?

It COULD make a difference, but run it and see if it leaks transmission fluid before you conclude that the oil seals have dried out, much less that the transmission is shot. I've been through this one, with a mothballed Navy engine and tranny. My mistake was not acting on the fact that it was leaking transmission fluid until one day it packed it in.

Learn to change your own oil. There are no Jiffy Lubes at marinas.
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Old 13-01-2017, 16:37   #4
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Marina manager is trying to make a sale.

Have a proper mechanic inspect drive and engine with particular attention to all rubber that has been sitting dry.
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Old 13-01-2017, 16:40   #5
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Re: Damaged from non use?

By the way, welcome to the forum, Alberg. Please do not interpret curt replies as less than loving. Don't hesitate to post questions, and watch for questions from others where you have expertise, which you may have gained from some completely different area of your life.
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Old 13-01-2017, 17:23   #6
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Re: Damaged from non use?

I say see for yourself. I have had sooooo many people and mechanics tell me things I didn't end up needing at all. Suburu dealer told me a new head gasket was needed. Come to find out, my water pump wasn't giving enough pressure. Change all the fluids, clean up the fuel system and give it a whirl.
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Old 13-01-2017, 17:49   #7
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Welcome to CF Alberg37yawl.

Hurth marine gearbox manual recommends changing the oil (uses auto transmission fluid) annually. My model needs .36 litre (1/2 pint) so hardly a big cost. Very simple and takes 2 minutes.

Also the manual says "If the transmission is not used for periods of more than 1 year it should be completely filed with oil to prevent corrosion."

You don’t say what gearbox is used with the Perkins Perama M35 (that’s actually a Volvo I think).

But you ask “Damaged from non use?” And the answer is YES definitely. Non use damages boats far more than regular use.
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Old 13-01-2017, 19:46   #8
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Thanks everyone for the super fast responses. Sounds like I need to start with making sure its broke before I fix it. I will change all the fluids etc and give it a whirl. Worse case I have to haul it back out and do and engine swap. (the yard does not allow you to work on your own boat)

Any thoughts on the Yanmar 4jh45 the marina wants 30 to 40 hours of labor to do the swap if I end up going that direction.

Thanks again
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Old 13-01-2017, 20:21   #9
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Hope that 30-40 hours includes rebuilding the transmission. Unless you have to remove major parts of the interior to get at it, R&Ring an engine shouldn't take more more 3-4 hours each way and shorter if you disconnect/reconnect everything from the engine yourself. An unused engine/transmission can have problems with internal corrosion and/or deteriorated rubber in the seals but not necessarily so. Car transmissions are not the same as boat engines but have pulled them out of cars that have been sitting for a decade or more and they have worked fine. Same goes for engines. It's best if they are properly fogged with preservative oil but not always necessary. Have also had engines freeze when left unused so you need to operate the engine/transmission to find out if there are any issues before it goes back in the water.

You should be able to start the engine and momentarily engage the transmission while it's sitting on the hard. You don't need cooling water unless you run the engine for more than 5 minutes or so and/or at high rpm. The cutlass bearing uses water as a lubricant/cooling fluid so don't know how long you can engage the transmission without damaging the shaft bearing but a relatively quick cycling in reverse/forward shouldn't cause any problems. FWIW, have nursed a Yanmar 3GM30F back to the slip when the salt water pump failed by pouring antifreeze into the engine. Didn't run it above idle and only for a short time but it did get pretty warm. Wouldn't do that if the head is aluminum but cast iron is pretty forgiving of abuse.

The yard should be able to pull the engine without hauling the boat. You'd have to work out with them how long the boat could stay in the slip where the engine is hauled or having it towed or pushed into another slip with the dinghy.
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Old 13-01-2017, 20:30   #10
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Thanks Peter O.,

The 30 to 40 hours he quoted was to pull the old engine and drop in a new Yanmar complete unit. I am not allowed to work on the boat so what ever I decide they must complete all of the work.

Thanks
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Old 13-01-2017, 20:42   #11
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Re: Damaged from non use?

4 years is a while, but not that long. Older engines than that have been restored to life. If I were going to spend 10 to 15K dollars on a new engine, I would want to be sure that the old one is toast.

Sounds like you either need a proper diesel mechanic, or (better) learn how to DIY.

First, turn the engine over by hand using a socket wrench on the crankshaft nut. See if it turns freely. Does it? Good, it's not seized.

Change the oil and filter, bleed the fuel system, and then turn the engine on the starter with no throttle - this will give the engine time to circulate oil and build oil pressure before starting.

Now give it throttle, warm the glow plugs, say a prayer, and start it up.

Does it run? Good, now do the other stuff it needs after 4 years - raw water impeller, change coolant, air filter, belts, zinc in the heat exchanger, fuel filters, etc.
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Old 13-01-2017, 20:48   #12
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Thanks MarkSF,

I wish I was allowed to work on it myself, the marina does not allow any DIY.
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Old 13-01-2017, 21:01   #13
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Replacing one engine for another may also require many components to be replaced. When I replaced my engine it certainly took 40 hours labour but also required a completely new exhaust system from motor to transom ($500), new morse controls and cables ($500), completely new water intake with new hoses, and new filter system ($250). Whilst on the job replaced the fuel system, hoses, polisher and tank ($1,200).

Lifting the old motor out and the new engine in was about $200 for a small crane.

The engine bed itself needed to be rebuilt for the different footprint, don’t recall but wasn’t cheap. New engine mounts were ridiculously expensive like $1,000.

I was very lucky as the existing prop shaft length and diameter was ok for the new motor but I did have to replace the prop (3 blade fixed $1,100 for the cheapest I could find, including propspeed). Could easily have spent 3 times that much for a fancy folding job.

Wiring in the new motor loom took considerably longer than expected and added more dollars.

In my case too I had the additional cost of hard stand for 6 weeks whilst it all happened (and still had to pay for my empty mooring). Surprising how $15 per day ads up.

Plus of course another 15% for the Guvmint’s charge of both labour, and parts (yet I never saw anyone from the Guvmint turn up to help, not once).

Just saying replacing a boat motor is nothing like replacing a car motor. There’s no like for like and it all adds up. It sort of sounds like you’re new to boat ownership. So forgive me if I’m telling you how to suck an egg. But as the work goes on more and more things come to light and you have serious scope slippage. I mean project scope.

And of course you’re a yacht owner, so anyone doing work for you perceives that you’re obviously wealthy.
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Old 13-01-2017, 21:22   #14
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Thanks Grantmc,

You are absolutely right about my being new to boat ownership. I have owned boats before but nothing on this scale. The hours I was quoted on the engine swap was IF he could get a replacement that did not require R&R of the muffler, engine mounts or water intake. My understanding is the Yanmar engine comes completed with a "plug and play" engine harness and new control panel. I do like the idea of the new engine and transmission. Just not sure about putting $20,000 dollars into a boat I have never even sailed
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Old 13-01-2017, 21:26   #15
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Re: Damaged from non use?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alberg37yawl View Post
Thanks MarkSF,

I wish I was allowed to work on it myself, the marina does not allow any DIY.
Any other marinas nearby?
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