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Old 09-11-2014, 06:00   #16
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

As usual, everyone has his/her own opinion and they believe theirs is right and the others are wrong.

Carrying a spare for everything on your boat would be very expensive, would take a lot of room and add a lot of weight. And what you don't eventually use would be money down the drain.

Each of us has his/her own risk acceptance level as well as funds for the parts and a place to store them. A spare starter and alternator might be nice but for me, that's over $1K. Some spares do not age well and might be useless by the time you need them.

I agree with the poster above who suggested that if you feel your engine is unreliable enough to need spares for everything, you would be better off replacing the engine. A complete rebuild by a pro shop would be another option.
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Old 09-11-2014, 07:22   #17
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
That's too much stuff. The gasket set for sure, ( not all gasket sets include seals, like perkins!) You don't need a whole starter just all the small parts. Few people can ovhl a fuel injection pump. Get an ovhl before you go and then you won't need spare injectors either. Same with the salt water pump. It's a lot of money for a spare when you could ovhl before you go and just carry impellers and keys, gaskets.
I disagree!

Of course having skill and tools to do it yourself is extremely valuable.

But the more complete is your inventory of parts, the happier you will be when something breaks. It is amazing how difficult and expensive and time-consuming it can be to get even simple parts, even in civilized places, and this can really spoil a cruise. I was in Sweden, not far from Stockholm! A real sailing mecca with thousands of boats, and you would think you could get any part, wouldn't you? Well, a got a hole in the diaphragm of the world's most common gray water pump, the Whale Gulper 220. And there was not a new diaphragm in the whole country!! I spent two days when I should have been enjoying myself with my guests struggling with this. Finally understood that only DHL and three more days of waiting. When finally I managed to find the spare which I had bought years before and forgot where I stored it. Now I'm going to keep not only the spares kit, but a complete spare pump. I don't ever want to repeat that experience. The lost days of adventure are irreplaceable, far more valuable than the expense of a spare pump. You sail hundreds or thousands of miles to get somewhere, see something, experience something, and you spend all the time in port struggling to find a spare part -- it's nonsense. Having spares on hand can mean all the difference between a simple, quick, swap of a part, and a huge hassle which kills days of cruising joy.

So I am in favor of investing even big money into very complete spares inventories. As to starters -- I think everyone should always have a complete starter ready to substitute for one which goes bad. The rebuild kit won't help you when you're at sea and it goes out.
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Old 09-11-2014, 08:15   #18
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

The difficulty is predicting in advance which part is going to fail. In addition to the engine spares, I put a spare macerator and head pump kit on my boat for a two and a half month cruise. The windlass failed.

I was able to order a replacement and have it shipped to a marina I was planning on stopping at anyway but how could I have predicted this failure?
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Old 09-11-2014, 21:57   #19
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

We keep spares for just about everything but the actual transmission and a transmission rebuild kit which is almost as much as a new transmission. We even have a backup fresh water pump, but only because we use it for filling our tanks from a bag in the dinghy.

For things that we don't have actual backup parts on board for, we have a backup plan. For example, if our alt would go out, we not only have a backup alt (recently rebuilt, vacuum sealed and stored in a pelican case) we have solar, wind, and a generator.

Backup steering cables (and the ability to use the autopilot or emergency tiller to steer independently), backup rigging, backup.... the list goes on and on.

My boat weighs 22,000 pounds, adding two or three hundred pounds of spares really has not added a lot to the waterline. As a bonus, since we now know exactly the tools we need to fix everything, because I have taken apart just about everything and put it back together at least once, I don't carry more tools than needed.

Also, I'm there to help a fellow cruiser. You are right in that you may never need those parts but one of your friends might.
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Old 10-11-2014, 07:57   #20
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

[QUOTE=Dockhead;

So I am in favor of investing even big money into very complete spares inventories. As to starters -- I think everyone should always have a complete starter ready to substitute for one which goes bad. The rebuild kit won't help you when you're at sea and it goes out.[/QUOTE]

It's nice that you have big money to spend on spares. If you didn't, you would be served well by being able to change the small parts in a starter in short order. I have had and deal with starter problems over the years and I can't remember when the field or armature went bad. Not to say they don't but not very often. It the small parts that fail and some of us can change them just as fast as a complete starter.
On top of that I am just about to the point that I can barely lift a Perkins starter out of where it is. What does that thing weigh, 50 lbs?
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:04   #21
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Guy View Post
It's nice that you have big money to spend on spares. If you didn't, you would be served well by being able to change the small parts in a starter in short order. I have had and deal with starter problems over the years and I can't remember when the field or armature went bad. Not to say they don't but not very often. It the small parts that fail and some of us can change them just as fast as a complete starter.
On top of that I am just about to the point that I can barely lift a Perkins starter out of where it is. What does that thing weigh, 50 lbs?
Yes, well, God forbid that you have any starter problem at sea.

Of course there are many ways to deal with it.

The classic way is to forget about the motor for a while and just sail into harbor and into your berth.

If that doesn't work, you could anchor out somewhere, or heave-to, so that you can take the starter out and take it apart.

Everyone will decide for himself. But I find it worthwhile to carry a complete spare starter which could be swapped out quickly and possibly even while under way. Not getting the diesel started could be an even dangerous problem.

Yanmar starters are small and light, and it's possible to find cheap aftermarket ones.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:20   #22
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

At the top of my engine s&p list:

- Nural liquid gasket,
- oil filter wrench,
- epoxy paste and epoxy resin+glass,

I too have some dedicated wrenches, modified from flat wrenches (cutting off the odd side) to better access some nuts that are too close to engine room's wall (in our case, this is our transmission oil stick nut).

Over last 10 years we replaced:
- the lift pump (was OK, but we got seduced by a "diesel mechanic"),
- the exhaust elbow (this one failed, we fixed up then replaced it).

b.
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Old 10-11-2014, 09:46   #23
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
The difficulty is predicting in advance which part is going to fail. In addition to the engine spares, I put a spare macerator and head pump kit on my boat for a two and a half month cruise. The windlass failed.

I was able to order a replacement and have it shipped to a marina I was planning on stopping at anyway but how could I have predicted this failure?
Naturally. That's why you have to guess as to which is more likely to fail and/or has more severe consequences, and then balance that list against what you're willing to spend, and how much space you have, and there you have it.

Here's one idea:

All belts, hoses, filters, and gaskets.
A spare injector or two (I have a whole set).
A set of injector lines (very common failure)
Spare fuel hose and clamps.
Starter or at least rebuild kit
Complete spare alternator
Fresh water pump
Thermostat
Spare exhaust elbow and exhaust hose
Plenty of impellers (don't see the need for complete spare seawater pump).
Spare heat exchanger would be an expensive luxury -- I don't have one, but I don't think it's a bad idea.
Lift pump if your engine has one (mine is a roller cell pump integrated with the injection pump)
Anything else?
A rebuild kit for the injection pump is a good idea.


For the genset:
Similar to above.

For the rest of the boat:

Pumps:
Complete fresh water pump or at least rebuild kit
Complete gray water pump or at least rebuild kit
Macerator pump
Complete spare bilge pump (or pumps if there are different types)
Rebuild kit for manual bilge pump

Spares for gas system -- solenoid valve, collection of spare fittings, hose,
clamps. Spare regulator.

Deck:
Windlass -- spare motor and gearbox -- highly recommended although expensive. BTDT. Spare handset.
Winches -- maintenance kits, oil, grease, etc.
Spare blocks, shackles, pins, of all kinds. Spares for genoa cars and/or traveller (balls, end caps, sheaves).
Nav lights -- spare bulbs. Spare compass bulb.
Spare rigging and fittings.

Plumbing:
Spare pipe, fittings, hoses, washers for faucets and shower taps. Large collection of hose clamps/jubilee clips. Plumbing tool kit. Garden hose and large collection of fittings and adapters.

Toilet spares:
Complete spare toilet pump (important!) and rebuild kit for toilet. Spare sanitary hose and clamps. I learned the hard way, after having lost many cruising days to horrible toilet problems, to carry a plethora of spares for the toilets -- at least one of everything which could possibly fail, and actually multiple spares in most cases. I have two complete spare electric pumps on board plus all the rebuild kits AND a complete manual pump which can be substituted for one of the electric ones.

Electronics: Spare heading sensor and network GPS receiver. Spare N2K backbone cable, patch cords, tools and terminators. Spare depth transducer (best if installed in place). Spare wind transducer installed and in place (I have this).

Electrical: Lots of assorted wire of all types on board (including AC cabling), crimp terminals, crimp tool, solder kit, spare LED lighting units or light bulbs. Backup inverter (I have this). Backup battery charger (I have this and it's important to have -- battery chargers fail pretty often and it's a real PITA). Spare circuit breakers and fuses. Spare sockets, switches, other electrical items. Spare battery cable and terminals. Jumper cables. Spare toggle switches (amazing how many of these I've needed over the years). Extensive electrical tool kit including multitester.

Refrigeration: Cans of refrigerant and hose/gauge kit. I wish I had had that last summer!

Steering and autopilot: Some serious ocean cruisers carry a complete spare autopilot, sometimes even installed and in place. In any case, a spare pump is a very good idea. Spare steering cables and fixing brackets. Obviously, emergency tiller. Spare rudder seal and/or bearing (if applicable).

Stern gear: Spare anodes, cutless bearing, spares for prop (if applicable), complete spare propeller.

Spare shore power cable. Collection of adapters.

Suitcase generator to back up main generator (believe it or not, I have this, although I might be selling it).

Tools: Very complete tools including power tools.

Fasteners and materials: All possible stainless nuts, bolts, allen bolts, washers, screws, other fasteners. All kinds of materials for makeshift repairs. Glue and sealers of various types.


Your spares and tool inventories naturally grow with the years -- as things break and you replace them, you get a feel for what is needed. Sometimes you replace something just because it's old, and you keep the old one for a spare. Sometimes something breaks and really ruins your day, and you learn to keep a spare of that on board. Very often broken things are kept for parts or salvage material -- a collection of broken things is also a great thing to have on board.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:02   #24
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Plenty of impellers (don't see the need for complete spare seawater pump).
replacement seals for the raw water pump.

Great list.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:59   #25
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post

Naturally. That's why you have to guess as to which is more likely to fail and/or has more severe consequences, and then balance that list against what you're willing to spend, and how much space you have, and there you have it.

Here's one idea:

(...)
What is your cruising ground? Is it Antarctic and polar regions? Are you in a power boat?

Your list seems very, very extensive.

Which of the items you listed cannot be gotten in the places you visit?

Are your boat systems so old and frail that you need this many spares?

As I posted elsewhere above, we only had one actual fail in an engine that was 20 y.o. when we got the boat: our exhaust elbow showed a crack when I gave it a good (too good perhaps) clean. That is all in 10 years of sailing, cruising and living aboard.

So, in my book, you may be carrying along plenty of stuff that you can simply buy in next chandlery. (?) Just curious.

Not to say I see anything wrong with your take. Everybody should have as many spares as they feel happy with.

b.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:42   #26
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

What this boils down to is gambling.

Dockhead is betting his boat will break down, barnakiel is betting that his won't.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:49   #27
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

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Originally Posted by barnakiel View Post
What is your cruising ground? Is it Antarctic and polar regions? Are you in a power boat?

Your list seems very, very extensive.

Which of the items you listed cannot be gotten in the places you visit?

Are your boat systems so old and frail that you need this many spares?

As I posted elsewhere above, we only had one actual fail in an engine that was 20 y.o. when we got the boat: our exhaust elbow showed a crack when I gave it a good (too good perhaps) clean. That is all in 10 years of sailing, cruising and living aboard.

So, in my book, you may be carrying along plenty of stuff that you can simply buy in next chandlery. (?) Just curious.

Not to say I see anything wrong with your take. Everybody should have as many spares as they feel happy with.

b.
Atlantic Europe and Baltic.

The point of extensive spares is to minimize the effect of failures.

Even if you are in "civilization" -- like near Stockholm, Sweden -- it can be surprisingly hard to get even common spares. When something crucial stops working -- say a toilet, or a gray water pump -- it can ruin your cruise to be stuck for several days without the use of that crucial system.

I've never been on any boat on any cruise where something didn't break. Having the right spare and the right tool close to hand can make the difference between the failure being a trivial thing fixed in minutes, and it being a huge hassle which ruins part or all of your cruise.

Everyone will decide for himself, of course, what to keep on board, but where spares and tools are concerned, I go with "plan maximum", despite the cost. That is so that I can spend more of my cruises enjoying sailing and visiting new places and spending time with my guests, and less of them struggling with a broken item of gear and no parts.
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Old 10-11-2014, 12:50   #28
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
What this boils down to is gambling.

Dockhead is betting his boat will break down, barnakiel is betting that his won't.


And it's a safe bet, on my boat!
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Old 10-11-2014, 13:24   #29
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

I guess it a crap shoot depending on a bunch of things?

What is good for one isn't for all.
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Old 10-11-2014, 13:51   #30
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Re: Cruising spares list for diesel engine

Half a circumnavigation under my belt. All with a crappy old engine that should have died long ago. Armchair folks will balk and perfectionists will think I am a fool. Ask if I care.


The cheapskate list is as follows:

1) Starter Motor - usually 2 bolts and has the solenoid already attached. High failure item on 40 year old boats with crappy wiring and loose ground wires. Replace the whole thing for 80 bucks rather than pulling apart the guts or just doing the solenoid.

New Starter Replaces Perkins 185086600 | eBay


2) Water pump rebuild/impeller - if you are going for more than 2 years and out of the US, then have it done. If not let it ride and roll the dice. You will only get two years of constant use on a rebuild, so plan accordingly. New ones are stupid expensive for what they are. I can get a tablet for 120 bucks but I cant get a f-ing new water pump? In a pinch you may be able to run engine cooling through an external electric pump like your boats freshwater pump. As an aside, if you are overheating like crazy in the boonies pull the thermostat and go full flow cooling on the perkins. Glue the sucker down with permatex because you prolly dont have the gasket. Yes it runs cool. yes it is "bad for the engine" and no it does not really matter. The ol girl will keep chugging long after you have sold the boat. Get the new thermost after you are in port, or don't. 1/2 circumnav with no thermostat. Ask if I care. Cold engine is bad, but far less bad than a warped head and an engine rebuild when you have 10K for the year for cruising casue some crap got lodged somewhere and you didn't happen to be watching that guage. You can do this on a perkins. Others I have no idea.

3) Injectors if you can cross reference and buy them for 20 bucks or less. If 120 per, wait on them and keep your fuel clean.


3) If you have an external facet fuel pump get a spare. Cheap as chips. if you have the kind mounted on the engine with a little flip lever to prime/bleed the system leave it be until it fails then wait for your part like everyone else.

4) Remote starter switch - not a spare item, but a trigger grip remote starter bypasses all your crappy old wiring and lets you get the boat moving when a ship is bearing down on your ass and you don't have time to play "find the fuzzy green connection". One clip on the big positive the other on the solenoid and vroom you are started. Wish I had known about that when cruising, would have saved me a few pucker moments.

5) Injector pump - Forget this, too pricy. Get at least two racors inline before your on-engine fuel pump. First time you see big seas your crappy fuel tank will break stuff loose and then you are puking on yourself while trying to clean fuel filters in heaving seas and wondering why you did not take up golf. Dont f-up the injectors in the first place. Keep it clean hombre. Spare filters yes.


Transmission - too expensive, but if going the distance and you have a hurth get the rebuild kit. INCLUDE THE THRUST WASHER IN THE KIT. Some rebuild kits dont have the thrust washer and your rebuild will not last before it craps out too. IN a pinch you can revere your way into port once you have sailed in close enough even though that is stupid. But if the alternative is death on the rocks, go backwards mate. Reverse never goes on these it is always forward. In a pinch you can swap props righthand to lefthand and use reverse for forward. Just forget about backing up. Slightly different gear ratio but if you have no other options it is possible. Some will freak to hear that but it is true. Hurth HBW transmission is the devil and should be back in hell where it belongs. PRM80 cone clutch... PRM 80 Cone clutch... PRM 80 cone clutch!

Obviously the consumables need to be in there too.
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