Common Rail Direct-Injection Diesel Engines

[dpons]

Originally Posted by goboatingnow

Modern ECUs are reliable and you treat them as another spare part like carrying a spare starter or injector.

Not inexpensive here as spares come. Besides, you'll need the computer thing to diagnose and tune up. Not inexpensive either.

I can fully understand why somebody would like a highly efficient engine on a boat. But at the same time, I think sailboats are not efficient transportation vehicles.

[clockwork orange]

I have the Vag com for diagnosing this engine, it was only a couple of hundred bucks,im not convinced that the enviroment in a boats engine room is any worse than what a vehicle has to endure. That said i would prefer non computerized.
Steve.

[inamk]

You guys are great; you have discussed the subject thread bear.

I have a 1983 BMW 323i coupe. I replaced its 2300cc direct injection gasoline engine with a 2000cc common rail turbo diesel. Its performance is as good as of the orignal engine but its consumption is 15km per litre compared to 6 to 7 km per litre for gasoline engine.

I have done over 50,000 km on the diesel with no problems what so ever. Thus my quest the Marine version.

I plan to install two common rail diesels of about 60hp each in my 36ft cat. If there is a problem with one engine I can limp ashore on the other.

[mrm]

Originally Posted by inamk

I plan to install two common rail diesels of about 60hp each in my 36ft cat. If there is a problem with one engine I can limp ashore on the other.

If a bit more power is not a problem, I would look hard at 1.9l 90HP VW TDI engines from 1994-1997. Fuel efficient and very reliable. Runs of 500.000km without a rebuild are common. They use standard Bosch rotary injection pump (reliable) and a simple ECU, for which there is a lot of cheap third party diagnostic software and the interface is well understood. The cars they were in are starting to rust apart, but engines are going strong, so you may have luck finding them at car junk yards.

Sticking to VW line of engines, I would avoid their next TDI generation using PD (pump-injectors, Pumpe Duese) technology as they are expensive to repair and noisy in operation. As for Common Rail, VW is relatively new at adopting this technology due to being stuck with their PD for years, so no hard data here.

Marius

[clockwork orange]

I agree with mrm except the vws are way too much hp for your boat, i would love to power a 40ft powercat with a couple of the first generation 1.9 tdi engines or maybe the previous non computerized engines. Maybe the 3 cylinder Lupo engines would work for you, does anyone marinise them?
Steve.

[inamk]

On reconsideration I agree with mrm that 1.9 VW TDI is a good choice. It is easily repairable, the electronics on the modern engines would make them vulnerable to marine conditions.

I will consult my naval architect about installing two 90 Hp instead of two 60 Hp.

[tager]

Originally Posted by clockwork orange

im not convinced that the enviroment in a boats engine room is any worse than what a vehicle has to endure

I am, standing salt water is not something cars experience regularly. Nor is salt spray. Plus, reliability is a big consideration on boat diesels, in a car, it's not such a big deal if you break down, on a boat, a breakdown could cost you your life pretty easily.

[daddle]

Originally Posted by inamk

I will consult my naval architect about installing two 90 Hp instead of two 60 Hp.

A 90hp intermittent-rated automotive engine will be rated closer to 60hp in a continuous-rated marine application, no?

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by tager

I am, standing salt water is not something cars experience regularly. Nor is salt spray. Plus, reliability is a big consideration on boat diesels, in a car, it's not such a big deal if you break down, on a boat, a breakdown could cost you your life pretty easily.

Your engine is sitting up to it's rocker covers in salt water !!!!

You get a lot of salt spray in your engine room????

Car engines are exposed to awful conditions vast range of temps, humidity , road salt etc most ECU re IPx5 rated and would contain components rated for automotive use, which has a far higher temp range then the stuff in "el cheapo" marine leisure electronics.

People have to get over this nonsense in relation to electronics and the marine enviroments. The primary reason for such failures is appalling installations. Poor power supply systems and the policy of cheap product cost.

A typical car ECU will probably be the best designed and highest specced piece of kit onboard

Well designed electronics are far more reliable then the underlying mechanical systems they are controlling. Anyway ECUs can be swopped out ( easily or difficulty depending on the setups). Any diesel ECU could be cloned and kept as a spare.



Dave

[clockwork orange]

I totally agree Dave, a couple of years ago my son put a 1996 vw tdi into a 92 Corrado which was formerly a 1.8 supercharged gasser,this required changing out the entire wiring harness,ecu etc. It was plug and play, automotive systems use nice sealed plugs and proper engine harnesses that, if transfered into the engine room of a boat would be so much better than anything in the marine field. His Corrado has been completly reliable for 30000 miles thus far and returns insane economy, 40-45 mpg in City driving. He had a few minor Ecu related issues stemming from the donor vehicle so when i totaled my Passat he pulled my Ecu and switched it in, took only minutes and all problems solved. my point is a spare Ecu is not expensive, rebuilt ones are available,and is just a plug in affair. These things are drive by wire so im fairly sure that a handy person could modify the throttle potentiometer to use at the helm so you would run light wire rather than cables, how sweet would that be on a cat instalation?
Tager, if you have standing salt water in your engine room you have bigger issues, ive yet to experience that in 40 yrs of boating. Also,an engine breakdown on a cat is less of an issue than most other boats as you have two completly seperate engine rooms, fuel and electrical systems.
Steve.

[Marinheiro]

Inamk, just curious - on this thread you seem to imply you are considering a sailing cat whilst on another you talk about a power cat. Which is it?
If a sailing cat then per previous posters you will be over powered and over weight with the proposed engines. If a power cat I think you may well have a weight issue trying to carry sufficient fuel in what I understand is a proposed 36'cat?

[Blue Stocking]

The answer to the OP's first question is: There are very few available.

The answer to the second question is: No--because there are very few available.

If it was a money maker, somebody would be making money.

K.I.S.S.

[inamk]

Marinheiro, I am awaiting design plans for a 36 ft power cat which shall be built in a yard in Karachi. I plan to have an unstayed mast with a chinese junk sail. hence the confusion. The naval architect expects to have the plans emailed to me by December 2011. But the material list should be available earlier so I plan to have every bit and piece at the boat yard when the plans arrive. Thus all these enquiries about the engines now. With clockwork orange's latest post I have my thinking hat on again and am inclined to see his point.

[clockwork orange]

Inamk, im also thinking of building a powercat 44ft x 20ft x 15000lbs so essentially a 38ft with extra length. Having had such good experiences with the VW TDI engines,and already having one engine on hand i am looking at buying another the same,rebuilding both and running keel cooling and dry stack exhausts with no marinising. My engine is from a 1996 passat and still has a mechanical injector pump that is controlled by the ECU with a little electric motor in the top of the pump. It is possible to run it mechanically without the ECU with a little adapting although my inclination is to swap out the engine harness and all from the car and keep it in TDI configuration. Another thing i really like with this engine is that it is happiest at 1900-2100rpm and is fairly quiet (for a diesel) in this range, some other diesels are running at higher rpms and are noisier.
Steve.

[goboatingnow]

Originally Posted by Blue Stocking

The answer to the OP's first question is: There are very few available.

The answer to the second question is: No--because there are very few available.

If it was a money maker, somebody would be making money.

K.I.S.S.

As I've already pointed out there's quite a few common rail marine units Volvo D3/D4/D6/D9. Some yanmars units as well as some others. Under 50 hp
Is harder to find.

Dave