Chinese Diesel Engines

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by NoTies

maybe it's just the Bluewater sailors who actually visit another country that learn cultural tolerance.

Quite a broad spectrum of folks on CF, both folks who are "foreigners" and those who have travelled widely and for extended periods by all manner of means for both pleasure and work / business - including by ye olde fashioned......Jumbo Jet .

Being on a boat, even when swapping countries, does not automatically provide any great understanding of other peoples and cultures. Of course same as folks who arrive by Jumbo Jet ...........some of course never do learn much, no matter how long on the ground or how widely travelled.

Some folks are a quick learn on the differences between Kansas and Katmandu(sp?), and some even recognise that cultural differences can often enough be a way of presenting the sh#tty end of the stick to Mr Johnny Foreigner - with a smile .....and IME it ain't always neccessary to grab the stick to know what it is - but that is (IME) a YMMV kinda thing.......


Kinda ironic talking about tolerance for differing cultures (and ethnicities / colours?) in regard to the Chinese as not exactly a 2 way street thing. Just ask a Tibetan .

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by NoTies

I've seen a few racist comments. Someone called it nationalist which is just a euphemism for race based bigotry. Telling people to go away because they call somebody out about it is pathetic. The xenophobic morons who have slammed everything Chinese on here need a lesson in cultural diversity.

The word Nationalist is a euphemism for race based bigotry? That's a stretch. Then you go ahead and degrade the person further with "xenophobic moron". It seems all this is to "win" an argument. I would expect that out of an overzealous recent graduate of some preppy school.
I really don't have a dog in this fight. I just have the common sense not to buy products that will let me down at a later date. We have seen in the past Melamine in milk, Dry wall with chemicals in it that eat copper pipes in the walls. Those are only two examples of a long list. All from China. So to elude to the idea that some how the Chinese wear some type of white glove and people are unfairly picking on them is absurd.
As far as telling people to go away, Manitu was the one who wanted to leave.
"Anyway , just point me to the correct thread/forum , and I'll be gone from this one.
.manitu"
I apologize for the thread drift from the actual engine discussion.

[Randyonr3]

Originally Posted by Celestialsailor

I apologize for the thread drift from the actual engine discussion.

I dont think your apologie is nessessary, as you are still on the same engine discussion ..
Ré, the background and reputation of the builders..
Being in business for myself, I am not judged by the work I am doing now,but by the
Business I have conducted in the past. Even in the everyday pace of life you are judged by your charater , of life you lead...
Concerning the motor, they , the chineese, have à very poor reputation as à whole concerning manufacturing quality.
You'll get my dollars when you prove yourselve..

[manitu]

Nationalism,patriotism and so on are all expression that someone or some place is just better than other. And yes , China isn't the most tolerant of places , but I refuse to be dragged down to that level. Only way to lead them forward is by example.

And yes , I'll be glad to leave this thread , if noone is interested in or capable of discussing the actual engines and their performance. And I offered to do so , so no hard feelings.

But.. the Venezuela/Chaves thread was closed ASAP because of politics , while this thread , wich could be useful for a lot of people can be filled with thoughtless nationalistic crap with racist undertones, and not a Mod in sight.

So... is politics OK , however dirty as long as it's pro american?

edit:
Ontopic: Has anyone seen these engines , and like to share? would like to know for shure wich engine blocks the rest of the engines are built on.

And using Kubota-copies (most likely).. They reduce the max RPM from 3600 to 3000 , and rate the engines 8hp and 21hp , while Nanni and Beta get 14 and 30hp from the same design. Sounds like there is some margin.


.manitu

[Delfin]

Those who believe that there aren't cultural, educational and economic differences between nationalities that result in differences in how those people view manufacturing really to need to get out more. Or at least go through the process of having something manufactured in China before they get huffy when someone makes the observation that the Chinese are not the Americans when it comes to building diesel engines. In China, you get what you want and what you manage and supervise to get. Want first world quality? No problem. Want cheap? No problem. For the first, just have someone physically there ensuring that quality happens. For the latter, put the offer out for bid and select on price but don't be surprised if what you get blows up, leaks, doesn't last, or is found to be stuffed with hospital waste after being painted with lead based paint left over from WWII.

And just to show what a bigot I am, generally speaking, I think the Germans make the best cars, the Italians love elegance more than the Germans so make prettier bicycle parts and the French don't like to work as hard as the Polish but know a lot more about food and enjoying themselves.

Politically correct lunacy is going to kill us all.....

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by manitu

Ontopic: Has anyone seen these engines , and like to share? would like to know for shure wich engine blocks the rest of the engines are built on.

And using Kubota-copies (most likely).. They reduce the max RPM from 3600 to 3000 , and rate the engines 8hp and 21hp , while Nanni and Beta get 14 and 30hp from the same design. Sounds like there is some margin.


.manitu

Perhaps. Or perhaps when loaded to 30 hp they blow a rod. What you may be missing is that there is zero market for poorly constructed diesel engines in the U.S. and Europe. If you make one, no one will buy it or you will get sued. In the third world, there is a market for such engines because THEY HAVE LESS MONEY TO SPEND.

If you know what the metallurgy is of a Chinese diesel, and how often they re-tool, and how good their castings are, and how clean their manufacturing processes are, then you are on the way to understanding the value proposition they make, because Lord knows, what they produce will be a near exact design replica of a good diesel made elsewhere since intellectual property laws are virtually non-existent in China. However, until you do know those engineering realities, any opinion on the subject is pretty speculative.

[Madcatter]

OK time to eat some crow, I assumed the Mahindra was made in China because the dealer sells Chinese tractors also, The Mahindra was assembled in the USA, of foreign sourced parts. My assumption lived up to it's meaning and I apologize. How ever I get the point that many are saying, you get what you pay for. I am in the process of looking for a boat for my family and I to cruise on and I want tried and proven systems. The Chinese engines are new, and as of yet unproven. I hope they are good engines but only time will tell. I apologize for my bad info and comparison.

[tsl]

I have been an import export business for 20 years. Where the product is made has nothing to do with the quality. (how's your iphone working?) Quality has everything to do with how it's engineered and manufactured. This is not fishing, nothing geographical (or political) prohibits making product that is suitable for the application intended.
I suggest you search for these engines in the AG industry and see how they perform. After-all, that is their primarily market.
You should also check engines that are remanufactured here in the US. I checked the price for my Universal diesel 44HP which is a Kabota engine.
It's $3,500 to $4,500 rebuilt with the marine modifications from my old engine checked out and placed on the rebuilt unit.

[manitu]

I think most people here know that the chinese hasn't the best track record , but are improving. just as Japan 30 years ago.
Most people here allso understand that there is a BIG difference in chinese goods , depending on QC' and what the customer wants.

USA does not have the best track record either , with your cars wich still has to be bullied to make a turn at all. Fast enough on the straights, though..
And that people from a nation built on genocide and imperialism , has the balls to critique China for their Nepal politic (wich I am against) , without an apology to the indians first , or at least a balanced look at geopolitics.. Just makes me speechless.

Some chinese engines are better than others, and I have a faint hope this is one of them , as they are built on Kubota blocks (or copies) and the hp ratings are conservative.

.manitu

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by manitu

Nationalism,patriotism and so on are all expression that someone or some place is just better than other. And yes , China isn't the most tolerant of places , but I refuse to be dragged down to that level.

Originally Posted by manitu

And that people from a nation built on genocide and imperialism , has the balls to critique China for their Nepal politic (wich I am against) , without an apology to the indians first , or at least a balanced look at geopolitics.. Just makes me speechless.

Thanks for clarifying your position, Manitu. Now we understand better where you are coming from and the sincerity and humility of your beliefs.

And speaking of tolerance....

"China isn't the most tolerant of places"

[Lake-Effect]

The key take-away, regardless of political derails, is that no one here has apparently seen or used a Chinese brand of marine engine with performance and durability anywhere close to the marine diesel engines (mostly on Japanese blocks) that we're more familiar with.

[Celestialsailor]

Originally Posted by manitu

Nationalism,patriotism and so on are all expression that someone or some place is just better than other. And yes , China isn't the most tolerant of places , but I refuse to be dragged down to that level. Only way to lead them forward is by example.

And yes , I'll be glad to leave this thread , if noone is interested in or capable of discussing the actual engines and their performance. And I offered to do so , so no hard feelings.

But.. the Venezuela/Chaves thread was closed ASAP because of politics , while this thread , wich could be useful for a lot of people can be filled with thoughtless nationalistic crap with racist undertones, and not a Mod in sight.

So... is politics OK , however dirty as long as it's pro american?

edit:
Ontopic: Has anyone seen these engines , and like to share? would like to know for shure wich engine blocks the rest of the engines are built on.

And using Kubota-copies (most likely).. They reduce the max RPM from 3600 to 3000 , and rate the engines 8hp and 21hp , while Nanni and Beta get 14 and 30hp from the same design. Sounds like there is some margin.


.manitu

Kind of another random judgement that you paint with only a black or white brush. If we don't like the quality of products from China, then we are "pro American". time and time again people posting have mentioned (in general) the quality of day to day products we buy from places like Walmart. That is their experience. That is what you were asking for.
Regarding a Chinese engine...A friend of mine built a Roberts Spray, out of steel and installed a 25hp. engine from China. Nothing but problems. True, that was 20 years ago and I do not have any proof either way that quality has got better. But there you go if you want 1st or 2nd had experience.

Originally Posted by manitu

I think most people here know that the chinese hasn't the best track record , but are improving. just as Japan 30 years ago.
Most people here allso understand that there is a BIG difference in chinese goods , depending on QC' and what the customer wants.

USA does not have the best track record either , with your cars wich still has to be bullied to make a turn at all. Fast enough on the straights, though..
And that people from a nation built on genocide and imperialism , has the balls to critique China for their Nepal politic (wich I am against) , without an apology to the indians first , or at least a balanced look at geopolitics.. Just makes me speechless.

Some chinese engines are better than others, and I have a faint hope this is one of them , as they are built on Kubota blocks (or copies) and the hp ratings are conservative.

.manitu

Your point is well taken about Japanese products coming of age. I remember in the mid 60's when the Japanese were beginning to introduce their cars. The were (at the time) inferior to the American cars. By the mid 70's that changed. Both with the Japanese vastly improving quality and the American manufacturers turning a blind eye to it. My last re-power was with a Yanmar. A superior product. So does that make me prejudice and racist towards any other country?...no...just smart shopping. By the way...thank you for being so speechless...

[neilpride]

S4135CZ7Marine Diesel Engine .

Rated at 1200rpm????? whats is that?? bore glazing at 300 hours??
Dont know the weight with the trany in place, anyone have some data about weigh?

In other forum i read something about 1000 pounds, and sounds excesive to me, but also i know that old iron blocks like Old perkins or volvos last a lifetime , only time tell us if this engines are junk or reliable, i dont trust in anything marine related coming from china , and by experience most hardware or gear are short lived or fail in short time if is enginered and built by genuine chinesse people,
in other words if someone have a good example of a well and durable chinese marine related thing , pls post it , a screw, a anchor, a winch
??

[manitu]

Yes , I believe the slaughter of indians is the worst genoside ever in the history of human, and it ain't long ago. We in Norway have our own indigenous people wich we harrased and even sterilized up to the 40's. The gypsies are still hated throughout europe, and all of this makes me sad.

The Imperialistic foreign policy of the US is a sad chapter in the civilized history , they have desimated the whole of south america, bombed their way through asia. They even interviened in greece ,and put a military dictatorship in place.
And this has continued in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I do not blame you americans of today for these actions , but I cannot accept ignorance regarding our own recent history. We are no better than China when it comes to foreign policy and our actions agains other souvereign nations.
Norway was the most active nation in the recent libyan campaign, wich I'm truly ashamed of.

It all comes down to the famous throwing of stones in glass houses.

And yes , this is my position in this matter, got nothing against americans but I will express my thoughts on the subject , when I hear opinions based on ignorance or selective memory.


edit: The pro-american comment was not made at anyones post , just the fact that this thread is still open.

To you guys who shouts about chinese injustice.. have you heard about Bradley Manning?

.manitu

[Delfin]

Originally Posted by manitu

Yes , I believe the slaughter of indians is the worst genoside ever in the history of human, and it ain't long ago. We in Norway have our own indigenous people wich we harrased and even sterilized up to the 40's. The gypsies are still hated throughout europe, and all of this makes me sad.

The Imperialistic foreign policy of the US is a sad chapter in the civilized history , they have desimated the whole of south america, bombed their way through asia. They even interviened in greece ,and put a military dictatorship in place.
And this has continued in Iraq and Afghanistan.

I do not blame you americans of today for these actions , but I cannot accept ignorance regarding our own recent history. We are no better than China when it comes to foreign policy and our actions agains other souvereign nations.
Norway was the most active nation in the recent libyan campaign, wich I'm truly asamed of.

It all comes down to the famous throwing of stones in glass houses.

And yes , this is my position in this matter, got nothing against americans but I will express my thoughts on the subject , when I hear opinions based on ignorance or selective memory.


edit: The pro-american comment was not made at anyones post , just the fact that this thread is still open.

To you guys who shouts about chinese injustice.. have you heard about Bradley Manning?

.manitu

On second thought, a Chinese marine diesel might be just the ticket for you.

Genocide Wiped Out Native American Population : Discovery News : Discovery News

And look what those pesky Americans did to the Indians in Mexico in the 16th century: