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Old 16-04-2013, 19:02   #226
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

As a diesel mech for the last 30 plus years I have seen the change in all the most common engines we see in the states and Canada. Used to be that Cummins could make a great engine now not so much. Cat and Detroit are also not as good as they used to be in the 80's and 90's. They all try and make more profit from farming out there component manufacturing to either China or Mexico. Why ? because its cheaper for the labour in both these countries. Cat still charges the same but the profit margin just got higher. The parts are pure crap. This is coming from someone who has there hands or tools on these engines every day. Its not the block or crank thats failing. Its all the other subbed out garbage components from elsewhere. I cant say how these small Chinese diesel engines will perform or last, but I wouldnt be counting on it to work any where nearly as good or last nearly as long as a proven make.

Japanese have been making great products for many years. Both cars, motor bikes, electronics etc. hard to compare China to Japan. The pride the Japanese have in pretty much everything they do cant compare to much the Chinese have to offer.

On a funnier note I have owned motor cycles for years. Wouldn't consider buying anything that wasnt Japanese. i get a good laugh at the guy who pays a huge amount for an American made Harley that has the same technology in it as a Chinese farm tractor.
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Old 16-04-2013, 19:09   #227
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

The Onion makes me cry..
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Old 16-04-2013, 19:43   #228
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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The Onion makes me cry..
But that was pretty funny
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Old 16-04-2013, 19:50   #229
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

I've been doing some work in the Agricultural field recently and I've seen some of the Chinese metal camlocks and ball valves. The quality is marginal and the metals are worst. And the cast parts were full of voids. The parts were cheap.

I've seen the results of Chinese marine metal products in salt water. It wasn't pretty.

The flip side is that the local Chinese don't have a lot of money, seems like a lot of the real money in China is not in China but in offshore bank accounts, these local people depend on their diesels, maybe this is one of the dependable ones. And what about parts and repairs.

I looked at one about ten years ago for our boat, it was quite a bit heavier than most.

Good luck in your decision.
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Old 16-04-2013, 20:03   #230
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by travisD View Post
... On a funnier note I have owned motor cycles for years. Wouldn't consider buying anything that wasnt Japanese. i get a good laugh at the guy who pays a huge amount for an American made Harley that has the same technology in it as a Chinese farm tractor.

I saw a Harley detractor had posted: H/D: 1950s technology, 2013 prices.
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Old 16-04-2013, 20:45   #231
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

All that "QC" (or QMS) does is ensure that you are doing what you said you'd do. There is absolutely zero correlation between "quality control" and "quality".

Quality Control simply means that the McD hamburger you buy in Austin Texas is exactly the same as the McD hamburger you buy in Anchorage Alaska. No more, no less. It doesn't mean it that its a quality hamburger. One might argue that its a god-damned awful hamburger, but it would be a perfect example of a quality controlled hamburger.
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Old 16-04-2013, 21:12   #232
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All that "QC" (or QMS) does is ensure that you are doing what you said you'd do. There is absolutely zero correlation between "quality control" and "quality".

Quality Control simply means that the McD hamburger you buy in Austin Texas is exactly the same as the McD hamburger you buy in Anchorage Alaska. No more, no less. It doesn't mean it that its a quality hamburger. One might argue that its a god-damned awful hamburger, but it would be a perfect example of a quality controlled hamburger.
I was shocked to find how many on CF do not know this.
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Old 16-04-2013, 21:38   #233
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

Quote:
Originally Posted by Weyalan View Post
All that "QC" (or QMS) does is ensure that you are doing what you said you'd do. There is absolutely zero correlation between "quality control" and "quality".

Quality Control simply means that the McD hamburger you buy in Austin Texas is exactly the same as the McD hamburger you buy in Anchorage Alaska. No more, no less. It doesn't mean it that its a quality hamburger. One might argue that its a god-damned awful hamburger, but it would be a perfect example of a quality controlled hamburger.
That is quite true, and those purchasing manufactured goods from China that turn out well are those that establish what quality actually means, then ensure it happens with onsite QC. If MacDonalds wants to offer a high quality hamburger they can specify it, then QC ensures the same product is uniformly delivered. In China, without the QC and regardless of what everyone agrees is going to define quality, you run a high likelihood of getting something altogether different. Which is why virtually everyone employs onsite supervision independent of the manufacturer. If you don't have any experience actually having goods manufactured in China, it is not surprising you haven't a clue why purchasing complex pieces of machinery produced by Chinese factories of unknown provenance without backing from another non Chinese company with a brand to protect frequently turns out badly. It is certainly not impossible that the TDME is just a great little diesel that costs half that of a domestic brand. Just unlikely.
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Old 16-04-2013, 22:17   #234
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by GrowleyMonster View Post
Well, I can understand wanting to go absolute rock bottom price on engines for either boat, but I suspect that neither engine will give you more than a thousand hours, if that. Maybe that's all you require, though. And the price was impressively low. That's something.
I'm 60 and plan to be using each yacht 6 months of the year, moving north when Sydney's winter hits. The engines are really only required to get me off the mooring so 1000 hours would last me a really long time. All power is being generated via solar panels and/or wind generators.

Quote:
Of course I would be delighted to be proven wrong, and I will be following your progress and results with great interest. If I'm right, you are out chump change, and a few dozen hours of labor. (might be good to have an outboard standing by, and a can of gasoline, when you take either boat out!) Be careful during the break-in period, and keep your oil clean. I would consider new rings before installing, because the OEM ones seem to go fast and of course add lots of shavings to the oil, and debris in your oil is your bearings' worst enemy. Not to mention the beating your cylinder walls will get. I'm just guessing here, that you should do this, so talk to a mechanic with experience on these motors. Good luck with your engines!
Yes, chump change is about right. I've been quoted two hours at $220 per to have the Perkins hauled out and swapped using a crane barge. I plan to utilize the original Parsons box since I only got one gearbox, just need to make some sort of adapter plate. Already have gauges in the Queenslander too, so the Chinese gauges will go into the Tasman.

Note taken about outboards. :-) Both yachts have an outboard mount and I just fitted an Evinrude 9.9hp to the Queenslander on the weekend so a belt and braces approach is already being used. The Tasman will move in light weather with a 6hp outboard and I'll be keeping an eye out for one of those.

Had no idea about the rings, if the oil looks at all bad at the run-in oil change I'll take your advice and replace those.

Rob
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Old 16-04-2013, 22:19   #235
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by Blue Crab View Post
I saw a Harley detractor had posted: H/D: 1950s technology, 2013 prices.
Harley don't sell motorcycles though... They sell a "lifestyle product" that happens to have two wheels...
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Old 16-04-2013, 22:25   #236
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by travisD View Post
As a diesel mech for the last 30 plus years I have seen the change in all the most common engines we see in the states and Canada. Used to be that Cummins could make a great engine now not so much. Cat and Detroit are also not as good as they used to be in the 80's and 90's. They all try and make more profit from farming out there component manufacturing to either China or Mexico. Why ? because its cheaper for the labour in both these countries. Cat still charges the same but the profit margin just got higher. The parts are pure crap. This is coming from someone who has there hands or tools on these engines every day. Its not the block or crank thats failing. Its all the other subbed out garbage components from elsewhere. I cant say how these small Chinese diesel engines will perform or last, but I wouldnt be counting on it to work any where nearly as good or last nearly as long as a proven make.
I used to import Chinese motorcycles. The engines were fine, most problems revolved around their inability to supply any ancillaries (lights, brakes) with E-markings or test certificates. Oh, and ALL the rubber hoses perished within 6 months.

Quote:
Japanese have been making great products for many years. Both cars, motor bikes, electronics etc. hard to compare China to Japan. The pride the Japanese have in pretty much everything they do cant compare to much the Chinese have to offer.

On a funnier note I have owned motor cycles for years. Wouldn't consider buying anything that wasnt Japanese. i get a good laugh at the guy who pays a huge amount for an American made Harley that has the same technology in it as a Chinese farm tractor.
As one biker friend wryly put it, it all depends whether you prefer hamburgers or rice.
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Old 16-04-2013, 22:29   #237
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

GrowleyMonster, just an additional note here. I did have an option for the Queenslander. A friend is about to go cruising Asia and plans to settle permanently in Singapore when he gets there. Since this is a major trip he's replacing his aging but still working Peugeot-based 52hp Vetus engine before leaving and offered me the Vetus gratis.

It needs a new exhaust elbow, price from official channels was ... $800. I did pretty good with those SDEC engines. Here's a photo of what I bought:
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Old 16-04-2013, 22:44   #238
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

Unless I missed it, I am surprised the availability of spares has not been mentioned. The major manufacturers still supply most parts for 20 year old engines, and these are available internationally through a wide variety of distributors and agents. We may whinge about those spare parts prices but at least they are usually available.

Regardless of quality, this makes it really hard for a newcomer to instill confidence that parts will be available in the future.
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Old 17-04-2013, 03:43   #239
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by Wanderlust View Post
Unless I missed it, I am surprised the availability of spares has not been mentioned. The major manufacturers still supply most parts for 20 year old engines, and these are available internationally through a wide variety of distributors and agents. We may whinge about those spare parts prices but at least they are usually available.

Regardless of quality, this makes it really hard for a newcomer to instill confidence that parts will be available in the future.
I think the days of popping down to the local spares supplier are about gone. Even with a spares supplier nearby the odds are the part you want wont be in stock or on back order. I needed a Perkins 4.108 Water pump, one was available in Perth with the front pulley attached, but would take 7 to 10 days to Brisbane. I ended up with one from Townsville without the pulley ordered Monday delivered at the door Tuesday arvo. As long as you can send emails parts can be sent anywhere in the world but you may need to wait a bit.
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Old 17-04-2013, 03:55   #240
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They,re cheap , buy two. Insto spares


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