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Old 15-04-2013, 15:34   #181
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by tropicalescape View Post
They own us?!!Would bankrupt us?!! Last time I checked the US gov was the largest holder of real estate in the world and Queen Elizabeth was the next...I guess when at war and you are strong(USA) "make yourself seem weak" to the other side and when weak "make yourself look strong"(china) It seems to be working if you think China could bankrupt America, the strongest and richest country in the history of the world...
From USA Today:

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China, top foreign owner of U.S. Treasury debt, increased its holdings 0.7% to $1.22 trillion. Japan, second-larger holder, trimmed its holdings 0.6% to $1.1 trillion.
You do know how many zeroes go into a trillion I suppose And that is just the debt they hold. Next up is the real estate and companies they own in the US. 23 billion dollars now. Check here: Rhodium Group

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Old 15-04-2013, 15:36   #182
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I know that the question is in the metallurgy, at least when we are talking about kubota copies. I was hoping that they could use genuine kubota parts if some parts are rubbish. I know their seawater pumps are crap, bur engines sold in europe has a johnson pump fitted.

Oh, and by the way, tdme/m-power has retailers in norway,sweden,UK,Netherlands,spain....

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Old 15-04-2013, 16:15   #183
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The last time I looked inside an invertor, it didn't look anywhere near as complicated to build as a diesel engine.

> I think our Norwegian history buff should buy one

Sure, as long as he understands the odds of being happy with the purchase quite a bit less than 100%.
What nonsense , a Diesel engine is a simple 1880s piece of machinery. Modern solid state device construction requires infinitely higher tolerance and specialised manufacture. A plant in 1880 could build a Diesel engine with a set of plans , you reckons he could build a solid state invertor !!!!!

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Old 15-04-2013, 16:48   #184
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

Both India and China have been building motors, vehicles, cars, tractors using decommissioned production lines from various european factory lines that had been replaced with new models/technology. Old Fords/fordsen are now built in India. Smaller New Holland tractors, previously fords are now built in a new factory in India. Older model Fiat tractor copies likely using Fiats old tooling are now being built in China under various brand names.

As a farmer I had always previously run John Deere tractors. The models I had/have were mostly European built (Smaller models) and one USA built larger model.

When I was last considering a new tractor I looked at the cheap China old model Fiat copies, Case, JD, New Holland and ended up with a Japanese 125hp Kubota.

Have seen a lot of Kubota tractors with over 10,000 hours and their reputation in Australia bulletproof giving lots of hours not needing a spanner. Mine is currently up to 3,000 hours without any repairs. If I was purchasing

I got the impression there are some smaller John Deere garden tractors are now being manufactured in China.

At end of day we get what we pay for and as others haveChinese manufacture of some goods are similar to the Japanese and Korean manufacturers before them. The Japanese brands Kubota and Yanmar are today up there at Worlds Best Practise. That said there are quality products already coming out of China under Global brands.

No doubt times are a changing and I suspect quality products out of China will continue to grow as will cheap rubbish as long as we are willing and continue to buy it.
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Old 15-04-2013, 16:53   #185
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

I think we should discuss the holding ability of the Chinese diesel in weed vs muddy bottoms... and the amount of scope necessary to achieve the best results so as not to drag during the night.
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Old 15-04-2013, 16:57   #186
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by goboatingnow View Post
Modern solid state device construction requires infinitely higher tolerance and specialised manufacture.
Are we still talking about the small factory with crappy marketing that produces your inverters? Or a billion dollar semiconductor plant that produces the components?

I can certainly build a serviceable inverter in my garage. Have tackled similar projects before. Diesel - probably not.
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Old 15-04-2013, 17:26   #187
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

I have had some interesting experiences with Chinese products. One good one is the Astra sextants. Pretty darn nice, for a small fraction of the cost of a Plath or Tamaya. Then there is the infamous "Gold Dollar" brand straight razor. Derided as utterly useless and worthless junk, until some of us started to regard them as half-finished blanks that might be made into a good razor, and we found the steel to be excellent, with great heat treating and tempering. Now a couple of my favorite razors are Gold Dollars, at only a couple bucks a pop, excluding my labor and the cost of new scales and pins. Then I bought a Chinese watch, a Seiko automatic knockoff, and I was glad I remembered where I bought it because an hour later it simply stopped working. I took it back and the guy shrugged and gave me another one. The next day, the second hand fell off, and I took it back. We left Dubai and before we got to Karachi, out next port, the third one stopped working. Now, I am about 7000 miles away from where I bought my $25 watch, and I am sure if I showed up in the shop with an angry face and the watch in hand, I could get still another one, but I guess it just isn't worth the bother, is it?

There is a large segment of the Chinese manufacturing sector that seems to be all about making a product that looks just like a thing but is not designed or made with any care about how well it runs or how durable it is, only that it can be profitably sold for a small fraction of what it would cost if made in Europe or the U.S. Bug zappers that cost $7 but zap 30 bugs and quit. Crockpots that are a crock, all right, and fill your house with vile fumes when they have an internal meltdown. But like anyone else, the Chinese CAN make good stuff, when they have no choice but to do so. If that is racist, then I guess the shoe fits, but that is my honest observation. And based on first hand observations gleaned from this thread, I have decided that at this point in time I would only buy a Chinese diesel for a boat on its last legs, and seldom sailed and even more seldom motored, until I see indications that quality control in those engines has improved considerably. And I refuse to take responsibility for their failure to make good stuff. My desire to pay as little as possible is natural, when I have so little to pay WITH. I don't tell them to go ahead and make shoddy products... it is their choice, and it is my choice what to buy.
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Old 15-04-2013, 17:32   #188
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Originally Posted by RedHerring View Post
The last time I looked inside an invertor, it didn't look anywhere near as complicated to build as a diesel engine.

> I think our Norwegian history buff should buy one

Sure, as long as he understands the odds of being happy with the purchase quite a bit less than 100%.
No problem. Anyone looking to Oliver Stone for history has scant ability to discriminate reality anyway, so he should be quite happy.
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Old 15-04-2013, 17:34   #189
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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I have had some interesting experiences with Chinese products. One good one is the Astra sextants. Pretty darn nice, for a small fraction of the cost of a Plath or Tamaya.
I second that. The Astra is quite a nice sextant. At least I found Hawaii with one...
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Old 15-04-2013, 17:43   #190
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

Dongfen have been manufacturing commercial marine engines of a good standard for many years. Their automotive branch is now in partnership with many non Sino companies and quality in my experience has always been good.
Criticising Chinese products is OK but when xenophobes start making bigoted statements about Chinese having no work ethic etc. I feel compelled to call them on their ignorance and racism.
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Old 15-04-2013, 17:50   #191
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Dongfen have been manufacturing commercial marine engines of a good standard for many years. Their automotive branch is now in partnership with many non Sino companies and quality in my experience has always been good.
Criticising Chinese products is OK but when xenophobes start making bigoted statements about Chinese having no work ethic etc. I feel compelled to call them on their ignorance and racism.
Can you point to someone saying the Chinese don't have a work ethic? These are the folks who built the Great Wall after all, and if you have lived in Chinese communities they never stop working. All I have seen are common sense observations that as a third world country without many global brands but oodles of small factories one gets the level of quality one wants from a Chinese manufacturer from horrendous to quite good.
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Old 15-04-2013, 18:04   #192
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Can you point to someone saying the Chinese don't have a work ethic? These are the folks who built the Great Wall after all, and if you have lived in Chinese communities they never stop working. All I have seen are common sense observations that as a third world country without many global brands but oodles of small factories one gets the level of quality one wants from a Chinese manufacturer from horrendous to quite good.
Third post, page 5
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Old 15-04-2013, 18:28   #193
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

OK Lets get real.

You/me want to buy a marine motor for a vessel or 2 for a catamaran.
Whats available in marine.

Volvo, Yanmar, Nani, Beta. With larger motors have Catapillar, Cummins , Detroit, Volvo, John Deere Yanmar, Scania, Ster. Not forgetting in past Perkins and Gardner.

I have missed some but what we have here is brand names with a reputation.

Would you consider a Chinese motor without a reputation at a price close to (10-20%) of these brand engines. I suspect not at present.

Gaining a good reputation in a marketplace takes time. So the prime consideration for considering a Chinese engine at present is price. Half or less they may be considered.

If they turn out to be junk as has been the experience of most at present they will not sell many in the States, Australia or Europe. They will as the Japanese have done have to build quality products that gain a reputation over time to build their brands.

Who has installed a Chinese marine diesel in their vessel ???
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Old 15-04-2013, 18:38   #194
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Re: Chinese Diesel Engines

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Anyone looking to Oliver Stone for history
Completely off-topic, but his episode on early WWII (the only one I saw) was actually not that bad. Don't know about the rest of the series.
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Old 15-04-2013, 18:44   #195
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I wouldn't consider an Australian or only other motor without a reputation. No matter what the price. Why put "Chinese" in the statement?

BMW uses Chinese built motors. Are those crap?
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