Car engine in sailboat?

[rwidman]

Any escaping gas fumes will sink to the Bilge and get trapped and accumulate there as an invisible explosive,(gas is heavier than Air) Not like in a car where they can disperse naturally.

Originally Posted by crazyoldboatguy

OMG - I did not know this!!!! You have just SAVED my LIFE!!!

I will now get rid of the gas engine that has lain quietly in my bilge, lo these 52 years, waiting for that moment when I least expect it - TO BLOW ME UP!!!

Now, you can go on and save the lives of the 10s of thousands of people who have propane systems in their boats - your job is done here.

He is absolutely right you know. The key is "escaping gas fumes" and first, preventing this from happening and second, sniffing the bilge and running the bilge blower for four minutes before starting the engine just in case something went wrong and fumes did escape.

If your engine and installation meets the current safety standards, you have and use a blower and you follow accepted safety practices when fueling, you should be just fine.

[Cadence]

Originally Posted by rwidman

He is absolutely right you know. The key is "escaping gas fumes" and first, preventing this from happening and second, sniffing the bilge and running the bilge blower for four minutes before starting the engine just in case something went wrong and fumes did escape.

If your engine and installation meets the current safety standards, you have and use a blower and you follow accepted safety practices when fueling, you should be just fine.

Come on Ron, "Current safety standards". Just old common sense. I guess maybe I'm wrong. Probably a good idea for someone that hasn't been there done that. Before blowers it was open hatches and wait awhile.

[crazyoldboatguy]

I have seen the aftereffects of a conflagration that occurred when common sense wasn't adhered to. A large powerboat with twin gas engines was having problems. The mechanic worked on the vessel for several hours and then started up one of the engines without first ventilating the engine compartment. The gas fumes were in a perfect concentration and a spark ignited same. Thankfully, no one was seriously injured. The mechanic was thrown from the boat in the explosion, the owner and his daughter were able to escape out the bow hatch. The boat burnt to the waterline and sank at the dock. 3 nearby boats in the marina were destroyed. A dozen other boats were seriously damaged.

In reality - this type of event is extremely rare - As are explosions due to propane leaks. But, as I read here - most folks are attentive to their boats and the equipment on board. Know your boat - know the equipment - ask questions.

But - to the OP's post. The installation of a V6 motor into a 50' sailboat would be impractical due to space issues. He could easily build a mock-up block and see if it would work. Folks do these things all the time and we aren't even aware of it. Folks fit improbable engines into their airplanes just for the hellavit.

The OP kinda suspected he was sticking his neck out here so he may well have been lurking for a bit and saw how biting some folks opinions can be here. Frankly, I hope he goes thru with it. He should just remember to run the blower for 5 minutes before he cranks her up.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by raymus7a8

Thanks to you, and to all who have contributed in a respectful, constructive way. I am new to sailing and to this forum. I may say seemingly stupid things sometimes, but at least I am sincere and eager to learn. When I become as wise and knowledgeable as SOME here that post, I hope I do not also become arrogant, belittling and patronizing. Some of us are dreamers who think "outside the box". Isn't that what this forum is about? The freedom to choose your own destiny and not be told what to do and when to do it? To learn from others experiences AND mistakes? To gather sound information to make wise decisions? To grab life by the horns and live life instead of life living you? After 101/2 years in prison., I am ready to be free...Truly Free! (Please don't judge me. You don't know me).
Alas, common sense and good judgment has set in with the helpful informative comments that have been made.
Living without borders, with integrity, honesty, a smile, a handshake, a kind, unselfish deed and a good conscience before God.
Now, you are free to tear this post apart. As I'm sure some will try. I realize that there are people in this world who like to try and make others look small, so that they may appear big. They have lots of time to mock make fun of other people. I am sorry I have not been on this site for long. I'm sorry I was not born with the inherent sailing knowledge that some of you seem to be endowed with from on high. Please pardon me, "Oh Great Ones".
It never ceases to amaze me how some people love to hate.
OK. Done with my rant. That is what I'm about, so now you guys can't say you don't know me. If you like what I have to contribute, then let's be friends. If you want to mock, hate and pump your own ego..."Roll-on". Go pump something else.

Raymus, thanks for the OP question. But this was a little over the top.

If your going to get any help from CF your going to have to get a little thicker skin or it will drive you nuts.

CF is no different than email, twitter, and even text messages. There is no ability to 'see' or 'feel' or 'hear' the writer and most of the time you won't know the intent of a poster without these. It will take time to get to know the posts of some people, even some that appear heartless and mean, but if you you make a decision to give people the benefit of the doubt, you will get to know the regular posters, who for me as an armature, the regular posters have the most informative and are the most knowledgeable. But you will also get to realise that certain posters 'look' in a post as mean grumpy old men, but are in fact just being humorous or it's just the way they write and on another post will help you out with really informative information and assistance.

My boat has virtually been completely rewired with help by CF and that's why my 12v is I think so good. It's also been repainted several times with the help of CF, which is why my boat looks like crap. there is lots to learn from these guys and lots of opinions to take with a grain of salt. But don't go getting all hot under the collar or you will quickly leave the site. And that won't help you.

One last thing, Use the emotive-cons, as they help spread the so people can get a bit of an understanding of what your intent is.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Cadence

Come on Ron, "Current safety standards". Just old common sense. I guess maybe I'm wrong. Probably a good idea for someone that hasn't been there done that. Before blowers it was open hatches and wait awhile.

you are spot on, and at least in this neck of the woods, the official advice from authorities was 'air' the boat before hitting the starter.

[charliehows]

"Besides the problem with gasoline vapors being potentially deadly, car engines are not designed to be run at 70%, 80%, 90% of maximum load continuously. Marine engines are designed for this continuous high load....which is typical use for a marine engine."

I'd have thought that using a larger horsepower engine and running it at lower loads would solve that problem - my current engine, for example, is 20 horsepower which easily runs the boat up to hull speed - most small,modern car diesels produce considerably more horsepower than required. I'm mystified at the idea that there is some fantastic amount of modification required to marinise an engine - this may have been the case when raw seawater was used to cool but a heat transfer system is almost standard on modern marine engines completely isolating the engine from seawater. The biggest engineering challenge i can see is getting a transmission adaptor plate made to allow use of a simple marine gearbox.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by valhalla360

No you need ventilation and spark protected devices. In general by the time, you get to explosive vapor percentages, the smell will force you off the boat.

?

This is a myth. High school science experiments demonstrate that the explosive gasses are present well before you can smell them. Which is why prior to bilge fans being common authorities recommending airing the boat out for 30 minutes before starting. And even with outboards, because these undetectable fumes can accumulate in the well of a dingy it's advisable to let it air for a ten minutes. It's even in the manual when you buy a new outboard.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

This is a myth. High school science experiments demonstrate that the explosive gasses are present well before you can smell them. Which is why prior to bilge fans being common authorities recommending airing the boat out for 30 minutes before starting. And even with outboards, because these undetectable fumes can accumulate in the well of a dingy it's advisable to let it air for a ten minutes. It's even in the manual when you buy a new outboard.

Absolutely correct! I used to watch while my parents would run the blower for 5 minutes and then smell the air coming out of the blower vent opening in the cockpit. When I grew up and started using the old Triton I, too, knelt down and smelled the blower exhaust. I stopped doing that when I read that the fume mixture can be very dangerous and you may well not even smell gas fumes at all. A proper vapor detector (gas/propane) would be recommended. I don't have propane appliances in the hull of my current boat. I have taken to running the blower if I even think I may need the engine. I sail in some congested waters and am comfortable having a ventilated bilge at the slightest hint of issues with tight quarters, etc.

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by charliehows

"Besides the problem with gasoline vapors being potentially deadly, car engines are not designed to be run at 70%, 80%, 90% of maximum load continuously. Marine engines are designed for this continuous high load....which is typical use for a marine engine."

I'd have thought that using a larger horsepower engine and running it at lower loads would solve that problem - my current engine, for example, is 20 horsepower which easily runs the boat up to hull speed - most small,modern car diesels produce considerably more horsepower than required. I'm mystified at the idea that there is some fantastic amount of modification required to marinise an engine - this may have been the case when raw seawater was used to cool but a heat transfer system is almost standard on modern marine engines completely isolating the engine from seawater. The biggest engineering challenge i can see is getting a transmission adaptor plate made to allow use of a simple marine gearbox.

The issue is similar when seeking to use a car engine to power an airplane. Folks think putting some ginormous V8 in an airplane end up with many issues related to the duty cycle of the engine. Even a large displacement V8 car engine isn't designed to maintain high loads at 3500 rpm for any length of time. By the time you get done with all the mods that deal with that (and it can be done) you have basically completely rebuilt the engine. A little less hassle in a marine setting because weight isn't as much of an issue and the boats don't fall as far if the engine quits but the issues remain.

And the adapter plate can be tricky what with output shaft into the transmission alignment being important in order to reduce wear on the bearings. Still, folks have been doing this kind of swapping as long as there have been engines. Hell, I think you could put a GE J85 into the hull and have some fun.

[44'cruisingcat]

Originally Posted by raymus7a8

I am thinking about putting a 2003 Dodge/Chrysler, V6, 180hp, gasoline car engine (w/4 speed tranny and front wheel drive) in a 40'-50' ft. motor sailor, (pilothouse/ketch style sailboat). I am a beginner to sailing but I know about car engines, so please be gentle if you want to tell me how foolish this idea is. I know marine engines need special water cooling systems. What else will I have to specially adapt? Can this feasibly be done and what complications will I run in to? Also, any input/advice on buying a sailboat described above will be appreciated.

I prefer rear wheel drive boats.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by raymus7a8

Thanks to you, and to all who have contributed in a respectful, constructive way. I am new to sailing and to this forum. I may say seemingly stupid things sometimes, but at least I am sincere and eager to learn. When I become as wise and knowledgeable as SOME here that post, I hope I do not also become arrogant, belittling and patronizing. Some of us are dreamers who think "outside the box". Isn't that what this forum is about? The freedom to choose your own destiny and not be told what to do and when to do it? To learn from others experiences AND mistakes? To gather sound information to make wise decisions? To grab life by the horns and live life instead of life living you? After 101/2 years in prison., I am ready to be free...Truly Free! (Please don't judge me. You don't know me).

Raymsu - This is the internet. You don't get to post something and have full agreement. CF is in fact the internet with training wheels compared to many other forums. You ask for opinions and you are going to get them.

And, if you reflect, no one is judging you. They are judging your idea. You have a couple of members going at each other over petrol bombs on board - this is the dialog that you created.

Oh. There is a sailing acronym to learn - HTFU - Basically shouted at newbie racers by Capt. Bligh skippers. Harden The Frick Up... i.e. take nothing personal.

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

My boat has virtually been completely rewired with help by CF and that's why my 12v is I think so good. It's also been repainted several times with the help of CF, which is why my boat looks like crap. there is lots to learn from these guys and lots of opinions to take with a grain of salt. But don't go getting all hot under the collar or you will quickly leave the site. And that won't help you.

I think your wiring sucks. But I like your paint job...

[Rustic Charm]

[QUOTE=
I think your wiring sucks. But I like your paint job...

[/QUOTE]

If I recall you old fart, you contributed to my electrical system. So if my boat burns and sinks, it's partially your fault.

[Rustic Charm]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

If I recall you old fart, you contributed to my electrical system. So if my boat burns and sinks, it's partially your fault.

doh, I thought I was referring to Crazyoldboatguy.

sorry Ex-Calif.

[Ex-Calif]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

doh, I thought I was referring to Crazyoldboatguy.

sorry Ex-Calif.

Either way my advice is worth what you paid and is guaranteed fully to the paid amount...

[crazyoldboatguy]

Originally Posted by Rustic Charm

doh, I thought I was referring to Crazyoldboatguy.

sorry Ex-Calif.

God help you if you relied on my electrical expertise.