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Old 04-08-2015, 17:17   #46
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

If money is an issue and you have the time, I'd pull it, dis-assemble it and measure the bores and inspect the crank journals etc.
It's very likely that you can "freshen" it up with new rings and bearings. I've done this kind of thing many times on farm tractors, back hoes and the like, very successfully.
Soaking the bores with MMO may work to some extent, but if the rings were stuck due to corrosion, it's likely to be a short time fix. I assume this engine has sat for a long time?
However I'd consider strongly to buy a new oil pump and have the head professionally done at a good machine shop, oil pump is the life of an engine and are usually in-expensive, and a head is beyond a back yard mechanics capability, a Diesel has high compression and a proper valve job is critical, to include replacing the guides if necessary.
I replaced the liners in my JD 410 Backhoe as it's a wet sleeve engine, replaced the bearings, oil pump etc. about 25 years and 5000 hours ago and it still runs nearly perfect.


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Old 04-08-2015, 17:21   #47
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Yep, at 2000 hours you have a definite chance. You'll know when you get It apart. If the bores aren't scarred you'll know pretty fast.
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Old 04-08-2015, 17:32   #48
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

A64pilot,

Yes the engine has not been run in years. I can turn the crankshaft by hand very easily. No noise or feel of resistance at any point.

Your other suggestion of DIY is intriguing and I've done similar work on car engines. But that was decades ago. I'm afraid I'm getting a bit too long in the tooth for that now.

If I have to, I'll bite the bullet and come up with money somewhere. Even if the Marvel gives me just a season or two, I'll be grateful. I've just spent around $25K on refitting when the engine problem came up. Any extra time would let me budget and at the same time examine options.


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Old 04-08-2015, 17:56   #49
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

MMO and hand turning and repeating with patience has been known to work on stuck rings. But that's still only going to let them wiggle a bit, if the cylinders are moving they certainly aren't sticking to the cylinder walls.


Some "Breakfree" or other penetrating oil (Kroil or PBlaster) would probably accomplish the same thing, possibly some ATF fluid (which is also used sometimes to unstuck things) although after any of those, if things improved I'd change the oil to make sure they were out of it.


I would think a wet compression test would have shown decent numbers, even if the rings were stuck and not moving properly. But I'm no diesel guru.
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Old 04-08-2015, 20:01   #50
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Well the mechanic finally performed a compression test and it wasn't pretty. None of the 4 cylinders even reached 200 psi and a couple had less than 150 psi. Pulled valve cover and saw no obvious problems. His conclusion is that the rings are sticking.

So it looks like overhaul or replace engine. But I had a thought that if the engine is going to get pulled anyway, why not try a long shot.

I've heard that some folks have had success by pulling the injectors and squirting Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders. Adding a bit more each day for several days and periodically turning the engine by hand.

Anyone have any info/experience with this? Suggestions? I don't think I can hurt anything. If the rings stay stuck all I've done is add a bit of oil.


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I have used oil many times in testing for engine compression. Squirt the oil in and spin the engine. If the pressure comes up it is a ring issue. If not look to head gasket & valves.

If you have low compression between adjoining cylinders, may have a head or gasket issue.


I am a big believer in that the most complex issue is often the product of simple problems. A cheap impact can make short work of tearing down an engine.

The biggest issue is access. If ur standing on ur head while testing, things are much tougher.


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Old 26-08-2015, 14:31   #51
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Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

It's been a while, so I thought I give an update on my frozen piston rings. I've been soaking the cylinders in Marvel Mystery Oil since my last post. Roughly 2 weeks or so. Periodically I have gone down to put a wrench on the crankshaft. At first it turned easily but not now. I think I'm getting my compression back.

I'll go down tomorrow with a breaker bar and check again. Can't hurt to soak a wee bit more.

I'm told my parts including glow plugs and fuel filters have arrived as well. Might have to put off the moment of truth until TS Erika moves past. I'll give a further update if she fires.

$10 of oil or $10+ K for a new engine.

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Old 26-08-2015, 17:05   #52
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Originally Posted by cabo_sailor View Post
It's been a while, so I thought I give an update on my frozen piston rings. I've been soaking the cylinders in Marvel Mystery Oil since my last post. Roughly 2 weeks or so. Periodically I have gone down to put a wrench on the crankshaft. At first it turned easily but not now. I think I'm getting my compression back.

I'll go down tomorrow with a breaker bar and check again. Can't hurt to soak a wee bit more.

I'm told my parts including glow plugs and fuel filters have arrived as well. Might have to put off the moment of truth until TS Erika moves past. I'll give a further update if she fires.

$10 of oil or $10+ K for a new engine.

🍸🎈🍸

Rich


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Best of luck with the storm and with ur engine.


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Old 26-08-2015, 17:24   #53
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Best of luck with the storm and with ur engine.


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Do you have a compression relief? I think rather than strong arming it, I would cycle a couple of times without compression. JMHO
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Old 26-08-2015, 17:43   #54
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

No compression relief. It would be nice. The mech simply said that when you can't turn the engine with a socket wrench we will go from there. My understanding is that procedure calls for some quick bursts to the starter without cranking as in starting. Just partial jolts.

He claims experience in this over many years, I'll let him break something instead of me. He further claims he's got several engines going this year using these methods.

For myself, I'm only going to use the wrench to confirm resistance, not crank it all the way through.


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Old 26-08-2015, 17:59   #55
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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No compression relief. It would be nice. The mech simply said that when you can't turn the engine with a socket wrench we will go from there. My understanding is that procedure calls for some quick bursts to the starter without cranking as in starting. Just partial jolts.

He claims experience in this over many years, I'll let him break something instead of me. He further claims he's got several engines going this year using these methods.

For myself, I'm only going to use the wrench to confirm resistance, not crank it all the way through.


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I hope your mechanic is right.
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:10   #56
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Me too!


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Old 26-08-2015, 18:17   #57
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Cabo Sailor:

don't you think it would be prudent to have a cylinder leak down test performed prior to taking the engine out. The harbor freight kits are only $30. The question is whether or not it has the correct size fitting. Take your glow plug with yo and see if it matches any of the glow plug nozzles that come with the kit. I'm not sure of your knowledge of this kind of test but it will help you ascertain where the compression problem is coming from if there is one. Here is a link to a video: and here is a link to the HF tool:Cylinder Leak-Down Tester You need a compressor to do a CLTest but you can rent those at tool rental shops. I help out in an auto shop class with a bunch of high School kids and most of them learned how to do this in one week.
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:24   #58
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Me too!


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I double in you situation he will stand culpable for anything. JMHO pull the injectors and hand crank if you need to. His approach may be good but may result in cracked rings.
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Old 26-08-2015, 18:27   #59
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Originally Posted by cabo_sailor View Post
It's been a while, so I thought I give an update on my frozen piston rings. I've been soaking the cylinders in Marvel Mystery Oil since my last post. Roughly 2 weeks or so. Periodically I have gone down to put a wrench on the crankshaft. At first it turned easily but not now. I think I'm getting my compression back.

I'll go down tomorrow with a breaker bar and check again. Can't hurt to soak a wee bit more.

I'm told my parts including glow plugs and fuel filters have arrived as well. Might have to put off the moment of truth until TS Erika moves past. I'll give a further update if she fires.

$10 of oil or $10+ K for a new engine.

������

Rich


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I don't know, if it's taken that long, You are risking a broken piston, rings scarring up the cylinders etc. if you run it. Easy to hone the cylinders and replace the rings now vs having the engine bored out and all new pistons rings rods etc., or a new engine later. There's little chance rings stuck that badly are not going to damage the cylinders, or at minimum wear out quickly.
Think of it this way, if you worked two weeks to remove a frozen nut off a bolt and managed to turn the nut off eventually, would you reuse the bolt?
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Old 26-08-2015, 20:13   #60
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

When I asked how long it needed to soak, he just smiled. Said sometimes overnight, sometimes a month. On the other hand in 47 years including being trained by his father, he's seldom see it fail.

My case took a couple weeks but it may have taken less. I was in no hurry since the parts hadn't arrived.
I do recall after a couple days, nothing noticeable. Than after a week a noticeable improvement. Now, we shall see.

At worst I'm out an engine which is where I started.


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