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Old 09-07-2015, 13:27   #31
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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The mechanic needed to get a compression check adapter for that engine. He plans to test each cylinder and go from there. He fears that the engine may have sat too long and I may have broken rings.

I must admit he is being very methodical. Beyond that one statement he does not want to speculate without more testing.

I am a Class A worrier, imagine the worst and plan for it. If it turns out better, well then fine. I too found it strange that all 4 cylinders would be without compression. We tried to start it and not even direct ether could get so much as a cough out of it.

I tend to trust him. He has a reputation of being the best in the area and is usually booked weeks in advance.

Well excuse me, I'm off to light a few dozen more joss sticks.

Thank you gentlemen, I'll keep you informed after the compression tests.

Rich ( but not for much longer)


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Rich,

For some reason mechanics and W46's don't mix. I had two give different reports and finally figured it out myself. Most have never touched the engine before.

Run the compression through the glow plug hole. If the mechanic does not have a fitting, the whole compression gauge and fittings are available at Harbor Freight for $30.

Make sure he does a leak down. First Mechanic didn't put the injectors back correctly and was actually leaking from the injectors. Copper washers on the bottom between the tips and washers just below the threads.
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Old 09-07-2015, 14:23   #32
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

"Copper washers " Forgive me if this is obvious, but assuming those would be crush washers, they must always be replaced, never re-used.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:08   #33
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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"Copper washers " Forgive me if this is obvious, but assuming those would be crush washers, they must always be replaced, never re-used.
There is a ton of confusion regarding injector washers on W46 and even Westerbeke is little help. They even seal a little differently between the Gen1 and Gen2 engines. Proper way is two washers on each injector, small copper sealing washers the size of the tip that just lay down in the head and washers on the threads to help keep from seizing. If you order part number 038842 from Westerbeke that is listed as Injector to head, they will send you a copper washer that goes over the threads, if they even get that right.


If it is obvious to you, it has not been to anyone else who has dealt with them on this engine, nor is it in the W46 tech manual or Westerbeke. There are a number of conversations on Boatdiesel and other forums that have tried various things. It was a Toro Mechanic in Australia who seemed to be the only one who knew the proper way to seal them and the proper washers are included in the China gasket kit. His comment was the Yanks at Westerbeke are clueless.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:28   #34
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Pull the injectors and oil her up. But first check that decompression solenoid.
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Old 09-07-2015, 17:58   #35
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Pull the injectors and oil her up. But first check that decompression solenoid.
There is not a decompression solenoid on this engine. It has a fuel shutoff solenoid.

To test the compression, remove the glowplugs on all 4, which will keep the engine from starting, screw in the compression gauge to the glowplug hole and test each cylinder. The starter will turn at least 200 RPM with the glow plugs all off. Crank until the gauge stops rising should only be about 3-4 revs. Compression should be between 355 and 440 as I recall. Takes about 10 minutes. Always a good time to check the valve lash. Don't add oil to the cylinders until after the first check, then you can do a basic leakdown with marvel.

Before removing the glowplugs, spray around the top with a little PB Blaster and allow to soak for a while. If you break a glowplug off, it is not fun to get it out and the head may have to come off, but I have done 4 now and mine about 10 times and never broke one.
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Old 09-07-2015, 20:21   #36
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

"His comment was the Yanks at Westerbeke are clueless. "
Well, since Westerbeke are really resellers and not engine makers, that shouldn't surprise anyone. They job out parts bids to subcontractors who ARE the actual makers and then they slap the parts together and paint the entire assembled engine Westerbeke Red.
And that should be the giveaway to anyone who has done engine maintenance. Every hose on the engine gets painted RED along with the block. Every hose manufacturer (Goodyear, Gates, Firestone, pick any one) expressly states that painting their parts will cause the rubber to CRACK AND ROT AND FAIL before it normally would, and that his should never be done. Never.
I got lucky, I learned that before I started messing around with boats, from a friend who was based with a tank command in Berlin. He said they typically had 1/4 of the tanks unfit for service, often because some idiot PAINTED the rubber gaskets, ruining the chemical-biological-nuclear seal status of the tanks. I wonder if that same army idiot went to work at WB. Hmmm.
It isn't that hard to avoid painting the hoses. Real engine companies like Ford, GM, Audi, BMW, hell, even the Chinese and Koreans have managed to do that from the very first.
Sometimes WB lucked out and got good parts from good suppliers. But their competence and knowledge of the commodity they resell...That's like asking the greeter at WalMart which floor wax is best.
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Old 16-07-2015, 06:38   #37
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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paint the entire assembled engine Westerbeke Red.
It is not even Westerbeke red, it is Chevrolet Orange-Red engine color, Duplicolor DE 1607, available at the auto parts store...
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Old 16-07-2015, 07:02   #38
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Cabo,

Did you get the compression done? PM me if you need anything specific, I have about everything in the garage for a W46 sans a block.

I am still leaning on the side of fuel and not compression, especially on all 4. Would love to hear an update.
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Old 16-07-2015, 10:52   #39
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Westerbeke Red - Paint Sources? - SailNet Community


There's been some discussion about that, but Pittsburgh Paint offers over 4000 shades of "red" and they claim a really discriminating eye can tell them apart. AFAIK Westerbeke never bought engine paint from Chevy. Although, I wouldn't be surprised if they sifted through the trash and found some. (G)
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Old 16-07-2015, 11:08   #40
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Tdoster

No they haven't performed the compression test yet. The mechanic has my boat scheduled for next week. He is supposedly rated as one of the best in the area hence booked well in advance.

As to fuel, I doubt it. The fuel has been polished and the tank cleaned. He cracked the injectors and was getting good flow. Finally, even with ether he couldn't get it to even cough.

We've been getting a lot of rain so there hasn't been much he could do.

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Old 16-07-2015, 20:24   #41
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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Tdoster

No they haven't performed the compression test yet. The mechanic has my boat scheduled for next week. He is supposedly rated as one of the best in the area hence booked well in advance.

As to fuel, I doubt it. The fuel has been polished and the tank cleaned. He cracked the injectors and was getting good flow. Finally, even with ether he couldn't get it to even cough.

We've been getting a lot of rain so there hasn't been much he could do.

Rich


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Update the thread when you find out. Nothing worse than stories without an ending.

Hoping it is something easy. If you need parts, let me know, I have to start cleaning out the garage and we are shoping for a new boat.
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Old 04-08-2015, 15:57   #42
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

Well the mechanic finally performed a compression test and it wasn't pretty. None of the 4 cylinders even reached 200 psi and a couple had less than 150 psi. Pulled valve cover and saw no obvious problems. His conclusion is that the rings are sticking.

So it looks like overhaul or replace engine. But I had a thought that if the engine is going to get pulled anyway, why not try a long shot.

I've heard that some folks have had success by pulling the injectors and squirting Marvel Mystery Oil into the cylinders. Adding a bit more each day for several days and periodically turning the engine by hand.

Anyone have any info/experience with this? Suggestions? I don't think I can hurt anything. If the rings stay stuck all I've done is add a bit of oil.


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Old 04-08-2015, 16:18   #43
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

I don't remember the full story on this. It sat I think for quite a while? Do you know the hours?
one possibility is that the rings are frozen to the piston or as the mechanic said broken etc.
If the engine does not have a lot of hours, On a budget, It's quite possible you may get by with : pull the pistons, clean them, Hone the cylinders , replace the rings and that's all. The new rings will seat well on the honed cylinders etc as you break them in.
Of course, you can also find out that when you take it apart the bearings are shot etc, but if not a high hour engine you may not.
In the old days it was called an overhaul as opposed to a rebuild.
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Old 04-08-2015, 16:55   #44
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Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

There are around 2000 hours on engine

As to overhaul vs rebuild. I thought rebuild meant the engine was then certified as having zero hours while the overhaul was not as extensive. I'd have to see price and have more info to decide between the two.

The mech told me that one possibility would be to replace the W46 with a Yanmar 39 with a different gear ratio. According to him the owners report improved performance and less fuel consumption. Price would be around $11-12K.

Right now I was going to try the Marvel trick to see if I can save the engine and not spend $$$$$$. What have got to lose. If it doesn't work I'll do more research. I'll especially want to talk with the people that chose the Yanmar option

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Old 04-08-2015, 17:16   #45
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Re: Can anyone give me a ROUGH est on reporting

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There are around 2000 hours on engine

As to overhaul vs rebuild. I thought rebuild meant the engine was then certified as having zero hours while the overhaul was not as extensive. I'd have to see price and have more info to decide between the two.

The mech told me that one possibility would be to replace the W46 with a Yanmar 39 with a different gear ratio. According to him the owners report improved performance and less fuel consumption. Price would be around $11-12K.

Right now I was going to try the Marvel trick to see if I can save the engine and not spend $$$$$$. What have got to lose. If it doesn't work I'll do more research. I'll especially want to talk with the people that chose the Yanmar option

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Try the Marvel Mistry Oil. Best of luck, my guess is not the hours but it was left to set up?
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