Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 20-11-2011, 13:20   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: INDIANA
Posts: 199
Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Question: Putting together 3-4 year plan to Cruise. Diesel mechanic classes in Indiana assume you are preparing for a career as a truck diesel mechanic - not many boats here.

Are they similar enough that a class for truck diesel will prepare you to know what spare parts you need and how to replace them, minimal maintenance, oil etc.

I would have it hauled out for an overhaul, just want to do a good job with maintenance and not be stuck somewhere not knowing how to change or replace something. Also want to know what my husband is talking about when we have problems and not be so slow on the uptake.

Thank you for your feedback.
__________________

__________________
In Training is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 13:36   #2
Don't ask if you can't handle it
 
sailorboy1's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: On the boat somewhere
Boat: Hunter 410
Posts: 12,308
Re: Boat Diesel vs. truck diesel

I feel they are close enough. I you understand trucks it isn't much to learn about the dierences. I learned on large submarine diesels, was definitely close enough.

But really if you are mechanically inclined a diesel isn't that much to learn to start with as far as the basics.
__________________

__________________
jobless, houseless, clueless, living on a boat and cruising around somewhere
sailorboy1 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 13:38   #3
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Santa Cruz
Boat: Boatless Again
Posts: 4,310
Re: Boat Diesel vs. truck diesel

Boat diesels are the same as truck diesels except for the cooling and exhaust systems. The cooling system on a boat usually has a heat exchanger and two water pumps instead of one. The exhaust system usually has a water injection elbow after the exhaust manifold. Both of these systems requires periodic maintenance and spare parts, like impellers, zincs, and possibly the injection elbow itself.

Fuel and electric systems are essentially the same.
__________________
donradcliffe is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 13:44   #4
Registered User
 
Astrid's Avatar

Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Northern British Columbia, part of the time in Prince Rupert and part of the time on Moresby Island.
Boat: 50-ft steel Ketch
Posts: 1,885
Send a message via MSN to Astrid Send a message via Yahoo to Astrid
Re: Boat Diesel vs. truck diesel

It certainly would not hurt to take a class or two in diesel mechanics, even if aimed more at automotive rather than marine diesels. One just needs to remember that marine diesels work in a sometimes more hostile environment where condensation is the big enemy, resulting in shorter times between oil changes, and corrosion due to galvanic reaction runs a close second. Marine diesels also frequently have, or should have, more elaborate fuel filtration systems.

Finally, as Don says, there are differences in the cooling systems and exhaust systems.
__________________
'Tis evening on the moorland free,The starlit wave is still: Home is the sailor from the sea, The hunter from the hill.
Astrid is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 14:59   #5
Moderator Emeritus
 
David M's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: San Francisco Bay
Boat: research vessel
Posts: 10,150
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

They are close enough where you would learn a lot and be able to tell hubby what kind of spark plugs the engine needs.

Kidding.

It's worth it.
__________________
David

Life begins where land ends.
David M is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 15:46   #6
Registered User
 
Tia Bu's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: South Carolina
Boat: 40' Jeanneau
Posts: 454
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Truck diesel classes would be informative. A long time ago, a boat captain told me, "Diesels are easy. If they are getting fuel, they run. If they aren't getting fuel, they don't run." He was right.

Diesel mechanics is a lot easier than it seems. I applaud your interest in the subject. Working on the diesel has grown to be one of my favorite parts of boating, strangely enough. They're really cool machines.
__________________
Tia Bu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-11-2011, 16:02   #7
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Just remember that on a cruising boat the operational characteristics are different. In trucks the fuel is, generally, turned over much more rapidly than in a boat. The main troubles with marine diesels are 1) fuel 2) cooling system (raw water pumps, heat exchangers, and injection elbows). Fuel tanks have to be cleaned periodically and the cooling system needs regular maintenance. Feed it "clean" fuel and keep the cooling system in good order, along with the other regular maintenance items and it will run well for a long time.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 06:13   #8
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oriental, NC
Boat: Mainship Pilot 34
Posts: 1,429
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Log on and subscribe to boatdiesel.com. I have learned more about marine diesels on this site than anything else. And if you have a problem, the guys who hang out on this site will help with it.

David
__________________
djmarchand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 06:34   #9
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 774
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Marine engines,in particular diesels are more similar to industrial engine rather than automotive type (EG BobCat etc). They're designed to run at constant engine speed for hours and are rated as Continuous Duty or Intermittent Duty and are subject to a time factor. IE, 3000 rpm @ 24 hours or 1800 rpm @ 10 hours. Automotive engines are rated as intermittent.
As noted there are differences in cooling and exhaust systems, however they are not necessary, (dry stack exhaust and raw water cooling).
Here's a good article explaining CD.
Seaboard Marine - Custom Marine Diesel Repower Specialists
MTU's CD chart.
Diesel engines for onboard power generation and diesel-electric drive: MTU Online
__________________

Seahunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 09:11   #10
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Toronto
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,574
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

The idea of understanding continuous duty is an important one. The way in which a boat diesel is run strongly affects its life cycle and maintainance needs. A few rules to follow:

1) Clean fuel is paramount. That requires vigilance at the deck fill (a Baja or similar filter to keep dirt out) and a decent fuel/water filtering setup prior to getting diesel to the engine's own fuel filter. In the broader sense, you need to keep your main tanks free of containments. Many long-term cruisers install a daytank that has nothing but post-filter fuel in it at any time, and therefore represents a "known to be clean" reserve, even if you have some sort of ingress and/or bad diesel.

2) Speaking of ingress, consider moving the tank vents off the side of the boat to someplace farther from the water.

3) Diesels will run optimally at a certain RPM. By optimal, I mean in terms of fuel economy, and in terms of running at 75-80% of rated output. They also like a certain amount of heat throughout the block, which is why truckers in cold climates leave their engines running, pollution be damned. Ideally, you want to switch on, run at 2,200 RPM (or whatever) for a few hours, and never touch the throttle. That heats the engine, makes the metal parts mate tightly and aids in proper lubrication. So I prefer to sail slowly at times rather than motor for 10 or 20 minutes, and I also in cold weather only gradually increase the throttle until my temps are nice and warm. The engine seems to like it better that way.

4) Cooling can be a black art. Most of my engine problems have been related to backpressure, little busted piston valve springs, and half-busted waterlift mufflers. The problem, of course, is that the engine cooling circuit is at or below the waterline, and the raw water (assuming you have a heat exchanger) is ultimately being pushed uphill to get, with the exhaust, out of the boat. That's a recipe for disaster unless it's fully understood. One of my decisions is to get rid of the siphon break and just to run a simple hose out to the deck. Easy for me: I have a steel pilothouse cutter with the exhaust going out one side. But the idea of having the fuel and water tank vents and the siphon break vent open and on the centerline near the "top" of the boat is not a bad one, and is worthy of consideration.
__________________
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 09:25   #11
Senior Cruiser
 
Randyonr3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Nov 2007
Boat: Beneteau FIRST 42
Posts: 1,836
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

went in to pick up a few parts for my 4-108 perkins a few months ago.. Was told that only about 7% of the 4-108 motors were used in Marine applications.. the rest were in stationary pumps, power generators, and in central america it seems, autos and small trucks.. looking over at the parts floor, they had 4 of the 104s on pallets waiting to go out for farm use..
__________________
Randyonr3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 15:46   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2009
Posts: 774
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

The Perkins 4-107, 4-108, 4-154 and the 4-236 where and are the most commonly used engines for industrial use. The 107 and 104 are rated as intermittent duty, while the 154 and 236 are continuous duty. The 4-236 is and still is the best diesel engine ever built and was the key reason Cat bought bought Perkins. The 236 is Cats best industrial engine at this time in its Cat 4.4 name tag. The Perkins Sabre M92 is the 236 in a new wrapper. Both the 154 and 236 are CD engines rated at 3000 RPM (24-7) and that's hard to beat in a small engine.
__________________

Seahunter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 17:15   #13
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: north carolina
Boat: command yachtsdouglas32
Posts: 3,113
Re: Boat Diesel vs Truck Diesel

Quote:
Originally Posted by David M View Post
They are close enough where you would learn a lot and be able to tell hubby what kind of spark plugs the engine needs.

Kidding.

It's worth it.
And what type of gas to use..regular is not a good choice..high test(93 oct.) works best..
__________________
tropicalescape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 21-11-2011, 17:35   #14
Registered User
 
Chuteman's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Charleston, SC USA
Posts: 491
Marine Diesel Training

In Training:
Just in case you wander east,
Here's one option for marine diesel classes

Mack Boring & Parts Company - The Power Behind The Power

no connection, just an interest myself
__________________
Chuteman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2011, 08:18   #15
CF Adviser
 
Bash's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: sausalito
Boat: 14 meter sloop
Posts: 7,260
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuteman
In Training:
Just in case you wander east,
Here's one option for marine diesel classes

Mack Boring & Parts Company - The Power Behind The Power

no connection, just an interest myself
the OP resides in Indiana. Anyone know of a marine diesel class anywhere close to that neighborhood?

You'll never learn how to change an impeller on a truck engine. Seems better to train on marine diesels if you can.
__________________

__________________
cruising is entirely about showing up--in boat shoes.
Bash is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
diesel

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Are You Scared of Wood ? CharlieCobra General Sailing Forum 116 18-03-2013 17:45
Intelligent Discussion on Ferro ssullivan General Sailing Forum 171 15-12-2012 17:31
The Right Way to Run a Diesel off-the-grid Engines and Propulsion Systems 80 09-12-2012 19:06
What Rules Do You Have for Guests Aboard ? jackiepitts General Sailing Forum 95 02-10-2011 21:37
Does 'this' Sound Like a Good Deal ? cardude Powered Boats 24 28-09-2011 11:59



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:41.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.