Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 22-11-2014, 12:44   #91
Registered User
 
avb3's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida/Alberta
Boat: Lippincott 30
Posts: 9,913
Images: 1
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by colemj View Post
It doesn't have to - it is just going in that direction regardless.

As for taking it to a specialized dealer if problems occur, buy an engine that doesn't require this. I just gave the example of John Deere overnighting ECU's to a boat in the San Blas Islands off the coast of Panama. These were brought right to the boat by a Panga. Others gave an example of being able to buy a spare ECU from their engine manufacturer. Don't buy from anyone requiring you to deliver the boat to a specialized dealer for repairs.

I doubt you have any real data supporting your statement that electronics on these engines fail at a much more rapid rate than mechanical components. That may sound "right" to you, and support your bias, but personally I suspect it is quite the opposite. It certainly is for automobiles and commercial vehicles.

Mark
Your correct, I do not have real world empirical data.

However, there is enough anecdotal evidence for it to be a concern. Don't be too sure about your comment about vehicles either. Up here in the northern bush in the oil patch problems with electronic systems in vehicles are a frequent point of discussion. The "limp home" feature is OK if you are in an urban environment, but not OK when stuck miles back in the bush.

In the meantime, I will rebuild my old style Yanmar, or if not possible, get a Beta. Fortunately, at this point, my engine is great and low hours. I love electronics, but I also am well aware that they have limitations, which usually crop up at the worst possible moment. The KISS principle usually works.
__________________

__________________
If your attitude resembles the south end of a bull heading north, it's time to turn around.
avb3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 12:56   #92
Moderator Emeritus
 
Coops's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Northern NSW.Australia
Boat: Sunmaid 20, John Welsford Navigator
Posts: 9,550
Re: Beware new yanmars

It's the same here in Australia regarding motor vehicles. A lot of modern vehicles are everything the owner wants, until they go bush, which is the big majority of this country. An awful lot of true and seasoned travellers are looking for the older vehicles without ecu's for this purpose.

From my experiences, ecu's produce fuel efficient, powerful vehicles but add a complexity that does not give confidence miles from nowhere.

In the last 10 years the only major faults that I have had with vehicles have been ecu related in origin.

Coops.
__________________

__________________
When somebody told me that I was delusional, I almost fell off of my unicorn.
Coops is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 14:27   #93
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dustybilges View Post
My intention when I started this was to get information out about electronic engines . ...........
I thought it was to warn people not to buy new Yanmar engines.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 16:09   #94
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Beware new yanmars

Here is a quote from Lugger Bob...
Quote:
People like to say they can fix the mechanical engines themselves if something goes wrong, but if a mechanical fuel injection pump fails, the owner can’t fix it himself – that requires a fuel injection shop. The electronic pump is less likely to fail since it’s a lot more robust, but it also requires a small electronic control unit (ECU). You can carry a spare – like carrying a spare GPS – and replace it in 5 minutes if there were ever a problem.
__________________
The Blue Dot Campaign. This Changes Everything.
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 16:53   #95
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Sydney
Posts: 197
Re: Beware new yanmars

I absolutely love new technology. I have had many hi tech cars and all kinds of gadgets my whole life.

I will never buy a hi tech diesel for a boat that will go cruising remotely. That is just crazy.

If forced to I would just rebuild rather than replace with a computer controlled diesel. The problem is what to do if you buy a new boat, you are then forced to go with what is available.
__________________
Moonos is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 17:02   #96
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,348
Re: Beware new yanmars

There's a reason high end cars lose value at a faster rate than less expensive ones. Mercedes, Cadillac etc... devalue real fast. My guess is because all those fancy electronic things have trouble and are expensive to fix. My old mother in law insists on having a Cadillac.... man I cant believe the money she spends on repairs.... I mean $1300 bucks is just a common thing for her...


Still... the black box controls on modern cars seem to be pretty darn reliable... the real question is will marine diesels ever get that reliable or go the way of the small outboards with the black box in them.....seems they always are in need of a fix....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 17:06   #97
Senior Cruiser
 
colemj's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Presently on US East Coast
Boat: Manta 40 "Reach"
Posts: 10,049
Images: 12
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
There's a reason high end cars lose value at a faster rate than less expensive ones. Mercedes, Cadillac etc... devalue real fast. My guess is because all those fancy electronic things have trouble and are expensive to fix. My old mother in law insists on having a Cadillac.... man I cant believe the money she spends on repairs.... I mean $1300 bucks is just a common thing for her...
No, that isn't it. It is because the price margins are larger to start with, and they are marketed into a segment that doesn't value used and equates expense with quality.

Mark
__________________
www.svreach.com

You do not need a parachute to skydive. You only need a parachute to skydive twice.
colemj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 17:07   #98
cruiser

Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: North Charleston, SC
Boat: Camano Troll
Posts: 4,669
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Moonos View Post
I will never buy a hi tech diesel for a boat that will go cruising remotely. That is just crazy..
You will if you live long enough and don't give up boating.
__________________
rwidman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 19:20   #99
Senior Cruiser
 
S/V Antares's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Annapolis, Bahamas
Boat: 1983 Gulfstar 36
Posts: 1,249
Images: 1
Re: Beware new yanmars

This thread reminds me of my old carbureted Buick that went about 60K before it started to fall apart. POS. The tier 2&3 regs are about over 50 or so HP.
You can still buy a fully mechanical simple diesel from many builders that do not have high pressure loop injection. However these systems have great benefits. My new car gets twice the mileage of my old one with the same engine size.

The CPU is usually the very last thing to fail on modern diesels. It is still the same stuff... water pumps, filters, risers etc. that fail.

That said...I have a Beta 38 that is a great replacement engine over the original "red" one
__________________
Will & Muffin
Lucy the dog

"Yes, well.. perhaps some more wine" (Julia Child)
S/V Antares is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 19:38   #100
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
You will if you live long enough and don't give up boating.
Or move to someplace that will somehow get by on old tech. What would some Cuban's do?
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 22-11-2014, 19:41   #101
Senior Cruiser
 
Cheechako's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Skagit City, WA
Posts: 19,348
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by S/V Antares View Post
This thread reminds me of my old carbureted Buick that went about 60K before it started to fall apart. POS. The tier 2&3 regs are about over 50 or so HP.
You can still buy a fully mechanical simple diesel from many builders that do not have high pressure loop injection. However these systems have great benefits. My new car gets twice the mileage of my old one with the same engine size.

The CPU is usually the very last thing to fail on modern diesels. It is still the same stuff... water pumps, filters, risers etc. that fail.

That said...I have a Beta 38 that is a great replacement engine over the original "red" one
I often wonder how much the computer control, 5-8 speed trannies really really improve the auto mileage. They are scraping the bottom of the bucket to get that last couple percentage points with that stuff is my guess. Weight is where the big saving is. In the aerospace industry, every ounce of weight savings at design is worth a certain number of $.
A 1968 302 V8, 2 barrel carbureated Mercury Montego would consistently get 21 mpg. I worked at the Merc garage and we had a fleet of vehicles. My recent V6 minivan gets about the same. However a small Hyundai gets 40 mpg. I have a feeling that even without the computer control it would still b e close. A mid 80's Toyota corolla station wagon got 35 and was heavier without any computer control.
I would bet the automotive black box effects pollution a lot though adjusting for sitting at traffic lights etc....
__________________
"I spent most of my money on Booze, Broads and Boats. The rest I wasted" - Elmore Leonard











Cheechako is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2014, 05:35   #102
Registered User

Join Date: Jul 2012
Location: Switzerland
Boat: So many boats to choose from. Would prefer something that is not an AWB, and that is beachable...
Posts: 1,241
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Cheechako View Post
However a small Hyundai gets 40 mpg. I have a feeling that even without the computer control it would still b e close.
One thing the modern computer control does is make smaller engines perform better. So that the small car is agile and fun to drive. Nothing beats electric traction here though.
In Europe more diesel cars are sold now then petrol. It used to be that if you bought a diesel you would have to accept that you would have a slower, more cumbersome car. Thanks to modern diesel engines this is no longer the case.
__________________
K_V_B is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2014, 06:12   #103
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Beware new yanmars

i bellieve most if not all kubota and mitsubishi diesels are non-ecu engines

Kubota: Nanni, Beta, and Universal
Mitsubishi: Sole, Vetus, Craftsman, ++

Volvo D-1 engines have electronic instruments , but I bellieve they have a 100% mechanically controlled diesel pump.

Another bad engine design (imo) is the small Lombardini engines. Not only computer controlled , but allso belt-driven camshaft.

.manitu
__________________
Is it possible that my sole purpose in life is to act as a warning to others?
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2014, 06:49   #104
Moderator Emeritus
 
GordMay's Avatar

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 31,577
Images: 240
Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
... Congress created the EPA to deflect criticism from themselves ...
Actually, I believe that Richard Nixon created the EPA, by executive order.

"We've got to pause and ask ourselves: How much clean air do we need?" ~ Lee Iacocca
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 23-11-2014, 07:26   #105
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Goteborg City,
Boat: 31' GRP Folkboat
Posts: 273
Re: Beware new yanmars

Checked the Volvo D1-xx series. First gen. had a problem in the ecu. A component inside broke loose during the first 15-30 starts. Volvo did'nt think it was a big problem at first , but had to replace the ecu's in 2007-8. the volvo engine will not start without the ecu , but runs just fine. So if you have a Volvo d1 engine , you can rig a emergency start cable with a starter switch , from the battery to the starter solenoid.

The volvo ecu is allso user replaceable, so you can carry a spare

.manitu
__________________

__________________
Is it possible that my sole purpose in life is to act as a warning to others?
manitu is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
yanmar

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Yanmars and 2 Micron filters in Racors? CarlF Engines and Propulsion Systems 29 11-05-2013 01:31
Electric Repower Cost Analysis - Value of Yanmars Microship Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 02-10-2011 16:12
Aluminum Engine Part Failures in Yanmars ? Dockhead Engines and Propulsion Systems 8 11-09-2010 20:02
Pricing Yanmars Herbseesmoore Dollars & Cents 8 28-07-2010 01:39



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 15:11.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.