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Old 21-11-2014, 12:03   #61
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
People, you can't escape change. Remember when motor vehicles replaced the horse? Transistors replaced vacuum tubes? Integrated circuits replaced discreet transistors? Computers replaced adding machines?

You learn to live with and accept it or you hide in a corner until you die. You can whine all you want on web forums, it won't change anything. If you can find an old engine and rebuild it and that makes you feel more secure, stop complaining and do it.
Actually, yes you can affect change.

Remember when all US fuel was suppose to include a high percentage of ethanol? Awareness, outcry and lobbying finally convinced the EPA that marine diesel so formulated was going to ruin a lot of machinery.

It was dropped.
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Old 21-11-2014, 12:04   #62
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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..... So much for freedom and independence
That's what sails are for....
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Old 21-11-2014, 12:10   #63
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Many (most?) engines are sold outside of the US, so even if the entire country got together and complained, it wouldn't amount to anything.

If you wanted to campaign against this type of development, you should have started 20yrs ago...

Common rail engines are better solutions for many applications - they are more than just a way to achieve an EPA rating. Good or bad, like them or not, they have been moving in this direction for many years now. Smaller recreational engines are just coming online as they undergo redesigns and new models. Nothing is going to change that. Adjust or adopt one of the alternatives available now.

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Old 21-11-2014, 19:50   #64
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Re: Beware new yanmars

The D1-30 Volvo Penta engine mentioned is not really an electronically controlled engine. The throttle and shift functions are controlled with standard cables, and the fuel system is a standard mechanically governed injection pump with a standard centrifugal governor. The "black box" which is being referred to as an ECU is really more of a translator box. It takes analog info from the engine and converts this info to CAN bus language so the engine can communicate with the CAN bus instruments which are common with Volvo's larger engines. This is the case on the D1 and D2 series engines.
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Old 22-11-2014, 03:10   #65
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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The problem , it seems to me , is that all it takes is a momentary power interruption or some other relatively minor electrical glitch and you will not be able to use the engine .
If the ECU's are really that sensitive then why aren't cars stalling left and right? AFAIK common rail diesels have even been certified for use in airplanes. That sure tells something...
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Old 22-11-2014, 03:15   #66
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Boats just aren't like vehicles . As someone pointed out , you can't just pull over and call AAA.
No. You just hoist the sails...

I've had engines break down for all kinds of reasons on several occasions. In stead of worrying about how reliable your engine is you should just not rely on it.
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Old 22-11-2014, 05:01   #67
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Just irks me the way the epa always picks on the little guy. There are NO regulations regarding emissions from large tankers and ships and surprisingly they are the largest polluters out there. I read one large container ship coughs out emissions equivalent to 50 million cars. I watched one ship going going down the st johns spewing out a yellow fog behind it that covered hundreds of yards on either side of the river. Just like the good old representative government, pick on the small guys but let the big money real polluters get away with whatever they want.
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Old 22-11-2014, 08:27   #68
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Just irks me the way the epa always picks on the little guy. .................
You are not the only one irked by the EPA. Congress created the EPA to deflect criticism from themselves when it comes to regulations that might be unpopular and cause them to not be re-elected. Pretty smart trick on their part.

The EPA has pretty close to dictatorial power and just as with ethanol and gasoline boat engines and small power equipment, they don't have to listen to the complaints regardless of the damage their regulations cause.
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Old 22-11-2014, 08:45   #69
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Re: Beware new yanmars

If the plane is hit by lightning will the engines fail ? Have you read the stories on various sites of malfunctions on marine ecu s . One guy said the first time he got underway it failed . Got towed in . Replaced . Went out . Failed again . Towed in again . Another with a short in a harness on a nearly new boat . Took two mechanics and more than a week to diagnose and repair . There are other similar stories out there . You're right and I don't mean to whine . Marine engines can fail for all kinds of reasons . The point is electronic failures can't be repaired in the field . If you get trained to use your computer and the software youll need and have all the necessary spares I suppose you can repair your own engine . Although the MB service guy told me no I couldn't without sending it back to him for reprogramming . Probably not , but I have asked more than one dealer if they could repair one and they said no . You're right if you're comfortable with new technology go for it . Cleaner , quieter , more power, I get it . Make sure you get absolutely clean fuel and filter it perfectly micron , bio , and water wise (twice the pressure at the injectors ) , never have a bad ground or power interruption , don't get hit or near hit by lightning , no shorts in harness or defective unit , you should be ok . But if you're risk averse I don't see how adding layers of electrical and electronic complexity can be a good thing . And I know you can cross oceans under sail only but do you want to negotiate an inlet against wind and current engineless ? For instance . In a vessel that may be your home and with loved ones aboard ? A dependable diesel is a neccesity for cruising .
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Old 22-11-2014, 09:03   #70
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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If the ECU's are really that sensitive then why aren't cars stalling left and right? AFAIK common rail diesels have even been certified for use in airplanes. That sure tells something...
Salt/marine environment makes a huge difference.
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Old 22-11-2014, 09:18   #71
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Salt/marine environment makes a huge difference.
The goal is to keep the salt on the outside.
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Old 22-11-2014, 09:19   #72
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Salt/marine environment makes a huge difference.
Plus, automobiles are pretty good faraday cages if grounded, and pretty good floating if ungrounded. I don't think they get hit by lightning much either.

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Old 22-11-2014, 09:21   #73
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Originally Posted by rwidman View Post
People, you can't escape change. Remember when motor vehicles replaced the horse? Transistors replaced vacuum tubes? Integrated circuits replaced discreet transistors? Computers replaced adding machines?

You learn to live with and accept it or you hide in a corner until you die. You can whine all you want on web forums, it won't change anything. If you can find an old engine and rebuild it and that makes you feel more secure, stop complaining and do it.
We can partially escape change. That's what those of us with sailboats and not power boats are trying to do. In your examples of change it went from less reliable to more reliable so it was much easier to accept. With the new ECU controlled diesels it seems to be going backwards in terms of reliability. It is not market driven change as was with autos and transistors but a gov't mandated one which has no solid economic basis, just political posturing to placate their electorate base which personally does not see too many negative consequences of these mandates and thus will never realize how destructive they are individually though very well intentioned theoretically.
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Old 22-11-2014, 09:21   #74
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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The goal is to keep the salt on the outside.
Off-topic, but this statement should be the #1 tip for any would-be cruiser. It has been THE most important practice on our boat for enjoyable cruising.

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Old 22-11-2014, 09:23   #75
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Salt/marine environment makes a huge difference.
More of the reason not to tinker for the sake of political correctness with established technology already proven in the marine environment.
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