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Old 12-04-2015, 18:54   #136
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Just back from the Oakland boat show where I asked both Volvo and Yanmar if they had any experience with lighting strikes and their impact on the new CR engines and if they could be operated in a limp home mode if the ECU was fried.
Both said no because common rail engines injectors are directly controlled from ECU - no ECU no go.
Perhaps we should be demanding that the ECU's be provided with Faraday cages or similar?
Do those with more knowledge than I have any suggestions?



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Old 13-04-2015, 01:13   #137
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Re: Beware new yanmars

I do not think a Faraday cage would help. I have a steel boat and lost a computer and TV a while back to a near lightening strike. I heard the snap in the TV which was close to where I was sitting and think the surge got in via the 12V power supply.

Whilst these complex systems might give much better fuel economies to road transport vehicles I dont think they have a place in the cruising fraternity where rugged dependability and remote servicability are required.
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Old 13-04-2015, 09:02   #138
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
Originally Posted by Catalysis View Post
Just back from the Oakland boat show where I asked both Volvo and Yanmar if they had any experience with lighting strikes and their impact on the new CR engines and if they could be operated in a limp home mode if the ECU was fried.
Both said no because common rail engines injectors are directly controlled from ECU - no ECU no go.
...
Last year at Trawler Fest I asked similar questions to the JD representatives. If the ECU is fried you better have a spare in a metal box, aka a Faraday cage. BTW, and old ammo box likely won't work because it has a rubber gasket that might leak EMP and fry the ECU.

The other thing the JD reps said that was disturbing is that the new engines require power to run. If the engine does not have power, the engine does not run. The modern diesels need air, diesel fuel and power to run. Loose one of those requirements and the engine is a no go.

A marine engine needs to be robust but the new emission requirements have make the engines more complicated, less robust, and in the engine we are looking at, consumes more fuel.

Later,
Dan
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Old 28-08-2017, 15:05   #139
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Anyone with any firsthand experience with these engines now, 2 years after last post in the thread?

CR technology on the surface promises better performance, fuel economy, quiet, and clean burning. Any real life experiences with reliability?

Ie aside from lightning strikes (and other "possibilities"), how are these engines doing?
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Old 28-08-2017, 15:25   #140
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Two words: Beta Marine
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Old 28-08-2017, 15:55   #141
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Originally Posted by Island Time O25 View Post
"This was extensively prototyped in the 1990s with collaboration between Magneti Marelli, Centro Ricerche Fiat and Elasis. After research and development by the Fiat Group..."

Aaah, FIAT was involved. That pretty much says it all.
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FIAT , Fix It Again Tony


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I`m not an engine expert, but remember that Fiat Group are the owners of Ferrari, Maseratti , Lancia, Alpha Romeo and Iveco among others, this last one an old heavy duty diesel engine manufacturer with a couple of world championships in off-shore racing, so MAYBE they have some experience here.

Mariano

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Old 28-08-2017, 16:03   #142
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Two words: Beta Marine
right. Beta's are great. But doesn't answer my question. As a mechanical diesel Beta's will be ALMOSt as quiet, efficient, and clean as a CR diesel.

I know most new boats that use yanmars will have had these engines installed in past 2-3 years. There should be plenty of experience out there. Hoping to hear some.
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Old 28-08-2017, 16:19   #143
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Re: Beware new yanmars

They are most likely going to be just fine, common rail in some ways is less complex than mechanical.
It may well be just like the old points and condenser distributor ignition systems, who wants to go back to that?

Remember when unleaded gas was going to destroy engines in less than 50,000 miles? No valve train can last without lead, every body knows that.

The NVH " noise vibration and harshness" of a common rail Diesel approaches that of a spark ignition engine, they can be very powerful, smooth and quiet. A mechanical Diesel cannot.
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Old 28-08-2017, 17:16   #144
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Quote:
The NVH " noise vibration and harshness" of a common rail Diesel approaches that of a spark ignition engine, they can be very powerful, smooth and quiet. A mechanical Diesel cannot.
Certainly true, but a mechanical diesel can continue to run with no reliance upon electrical supply whatsoever. A CR diesel can not.

None the less, the CR engines have some appeal, even for yachts. I just have this deep seated fear of really relying upon electronic devices at sea. We've already encountered friends with Volvo D-55 (?) engines failing to start because their "black box" is having a snit, and AFAIK this is a mechanical engine with some electronic "safety" devices.

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Old 28-08-2017, 17:19   #145
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Engines have been fine for me. The only problem I have had was with the heat exchangers and that was an operator error by the delivery crew mixing two different types of coolant. It has been a bit tedious to install better alternators to charge a lithium battery bank. But that has nothing to do with the engines itself, but would have been nice if engines were designed in the first place for easy alternator upgrades. But that is just me complaining.
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Old 28-08-2017, 20:30   #146
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Re: Beware new yanmars

A Yanmar authorized service place put a Yanmar service bulletin on my 4BY engine. It didn't work. They charged me over $1k because Yanmar wouldn't pay unless it worked. They and another Yanmar shop couldn't get the oil pressure gauge to work.

Yanmar said I had to bring the engine to Tampa at my expense and they would try to fix it the way it was.

I put in an analog idiot light and swore off Yanmar engines.
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Old 28-08-2017, 20:56   #147
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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A Yanmar authorized service place put a Yanmar service bulletin on my 4BY engine. It didn't work. They charged me over $1k because Yanmar wouldn't pay unless it worked. They and another Yanmar shop couldn't get the oil pressure gauge to work.

Yanmar said I had to bring the engine to Tampa at my expense and they would try to fix it the way it was.

I put in an analog idiot light and swore off Yanmar engines.


I'm not familiar with 4BY engine. What size and vintage?
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Old 28-08-2017, 22:32   #148
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Re: Beware new yanmars

Last year I delivered a Sabre with twin cummins QSB engines. The first time I tried to fire up an engine the ECU display said--'serious fault--call your dealer'. After checking everything I tried again and it ran just fine for 1500 miles. I never took that boat out of VHF range of Towboat US--my guess is that if I was out of range the fault screen wouldn't have cleared.
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Old 29-08-2017, 06:12   #149
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Re: Beware new yanmars

The Yanmar 4BY is a marinized BMW engine. Ours is 2010 and 150 hp. The problem started when I went it to have a service advisory installed.

They charged me $1000+ because since Thy couldn't fix it, Yanmar wouldn't fix wouldn't pay for it.

A second dealer couldn't fix it either. But at least they didn't charge me.

They couldn't put it back the way it was before they try to install the advisory. Eventually they told me I had to bring the boat to Tampa at my expense where they would try to fix it if they could.

I fixed it myself by putting in an analog idiot sender for oil pressure.

This was my fourth boat with a Janmar engine. The other three had no problems, they were mechanical.
Yanmar management has grown beyond at skills.
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Old 09-09-2017, 18:48   #150
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Re: Beware new yanmars

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Originally Posted by Marksman View Post
Beta marine meets the epa requirements, and are still all mechanical injection. GO BETA!


BETA BETA BETA

Question - have there been any boating fatalities yet resulting directly from a common rail incident?

I'm looking for an incident path of

1- lost electrical
2- couldn't start engine due to common rail
2- shipwreck
4- and unfortunately someone died

Has that first Common Rail Death incident already occurred?
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