Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 19-06-2019, 16:47   #1
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 26
Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

So my Beta 14 has probably always gone through anodes rather quickly - every few months or so - but lately it seems like it has gotten worse. I just checked my log, and I've replaced the pencil anode 3 times in 3 months. Those times the anode was either intact and crumbled down to 50% after I pulled it, or already down to 50% or less. I would much rather replace the anode prematurely for the obvious reasons, but also because the zinc oxide clogs the heat exchanger, and the engine will eventually start overheating. I've had to clean the heat exchanger twice in two years as a result.

From my research, a zinc wasting this quickly is usually the result of stray current or a floating ground. The boat is in the tropics, but is never in a marina, nor is it close to any possible source of stray current. Plus, it's been in 3 very different anchorages and two entirely different oceans in those 3 months.

Then the next suspect would be something shorting to the negative terminal on the engine?

A few extra notes. The propeller shaft is electrically isolated from the engine. I recently began hanging an anode overboard, connected to the negative bus, but I don't see any obvious signs of corrosion on that anode, nor do I see any reduction of the rate of wasting in the pencil anode.
scuttlebooty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 18:21   #2
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,494
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Something is wired wrong. Pos + neg reversed on some electronic item, maybe if you're making AC power, could be a AC ground problem. Could be a cheap inverter or maybe a bad power supply for LED lights.

My generators, 3 & 4 cylinder diesels, zincs, easily go 5 years and still look serviceable.

With a good meter, you can look for small power draws, and gradually disconnect items.



Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 18:40   #3
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

I’m thinking alternator, mostly because the hanging zinc isn’t being eaten up, and I bet it’s not in the water when he’s motoring, so I’m theorizing that the stray current is only there during engine operation.

Can bad diodes allow dc current back into the alternator and therefore the engine block?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 18:45   #4
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 26
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I’m thinking alternator, mostly because the hanging zinc isn’t being eaten up, and I bet it’s not in the water when he’s motoring.

Can bad diodes allow dc current back into the alternator and therefore the engine block?
This is correct, I bring it aboard when I'm motoring, unless I forget.

The engine has seen much more use in the last few months as compared to other months owing to being in the ITCZ and a few other factors. I mean motoring, not charging at anchor.

Regarding an improperly wired device, how should I perform this test, and how sensitive does my meter need to be?

I do have an inverter, but it only rarely sees use, and when it's not in use it's disconnected from the system entirely.

Regarding the alternator, is there any way for me to test if this is the case, and is there any precedent for this happening?

Thanks for the replies.
scuttlebooty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 19-06-2019, 23:43   #5
Senior Cruiser

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2013
Location: Oregon to Alaska
Boat: Wheeler Shipyard 83' ex USCG
Posts: 3,494
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Usually if some diodes are bad, alternator output is effected. Usually alternator won't produce full output. To test overall, disconnect wiring to alternator, meter leads to the pos (main wire to battery) and the case. Then switch leads. You should have high resistance in one position and low resistance in the other.
Most autoparts stores will test the alternator for free.
My guess is the zincs are getting wasted from a constant small source. If it was my boat, I'd shut everything off, disconnect one cable from the battery and measure between the cable end and the battery post. See if there's voltage. If there is voltage, start disconnecting items (one at a time) from the system and then recheck for voltage as before. Keep removing items until the volts are zero.



Lepke is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 03:32   #6
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Florida
Posts: 80
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

I am not a fan of using engine blocks as buss bars. You might study where your alternator, starter and other equipment are grounded. If they are attached at different spots on the engine block you might consider moving them to one spot or a nearby buss bar. Give the current the most direct path back to its source versus winding its way through the engine.
bglad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 04:25   #7
Marine Service Provider
 
Emmalina's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Thailand
Boat: Herreshoff Caribbean 50
Posts: 1,095
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

You in a marina ?
__________________
Steve .. It was the last one that did this !
Emmalina is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 06:15   #8
Moderator and Certifiable Refitter
 
Wotname's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South of 43 S, Australia
Boat: C.L.O.D.
Posts: 20,241
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Emmalina View Post
You in a marina ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttlebooty View Post
......... The boat is in the tropics, but is never in a marina, nor is it close to any possible source of stray current. Plus, it's been in 3 very different anchorages and two entirely different oceans in those 3 months........
There you go, question answered in the OP - second paragraph
__________________
All men dream: but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds wake in the day to find it was vanity: but the dreamers of the day are dangereous men, for they may act their dreams with open eyes, to make it possible. T.E. Lawrence
Wotname is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 06:51   #9
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
Usually if some diodes are bad, alternator output is effected. Usually alternator won't produce full output. To test overall, disconnect wiring to alternator, meter leads to the pos (main wire to battery) and the case. Then switch leads. You should have high resistance in one position and low resistance in the other.
Most autoparts stores will test the alternator for free.
My guess is the zincs are getting wasted from a constant small source. If it was my boat, I'd shut everything off, disconnect one cable from the battery and measure between the cable end and the battery post. See if there's voltage. If there is voltage, start disconnecting items (one at a time) from the system and then recheck for voltage as before. Keep removing items until the volts are zero.


Lepke gives excellent advice.
You do not have to be in a marina to suffer from stray current. In fact 99.9% of stray current damage is caused by ones own boat whether in a marina or not.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 07:17   #10
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

I believe a key issue is why isn't the hanging zinc doing its job?
Is it connected directly to the engine block? If it is, then it would appear that either the connection isn't good, or that your engine zinc is being wasted when the hanging zinc isn't in the water, which I assume is only when your motoring.
I'm under zinc'd with only a prop zinc for the whole boat, so therefore I hang a zinc, aluminum actually, but it does waste slowly, will likely last two years, is extremely easy to inspect of course.
Yours not wasting, but your engine ones are is pointing to some problem.

If your sure the connection is good, try leaving it in the water when you motor, if your engine zincs stop wasting, then you know your stray current is only present with the engine running.

Of course if you can get a hold of a half cell that should greatly help in locating the problem
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 10:02   #11
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 26
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

OK, so let's review.

There's likely a short from the positive to negative, or perhaps from the alternator, and because the entire engine is a negative, this stray current is giving a source of electrons for a galvanic reaction to occur in the raw water loop, thus wasting the anode. Correct?

Both battery negatives (starter and house) do indeed meet at the engine block, and then a third negative goes from there to a negative bus for all the systems.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lepke View Post
If it was my boat, I'd shut everything off, disconnect one cable from the battery and measure between the cable end and the battery post. See if there's voltage. If there is voltage, start disconnecting items (one at a time) from the system and then recheck for voltage as before. Keep removing items until the volts are zero.
To clarify, I'm looking for a potential across the battery negative terminal (disconnected) and the negative cable, is that correct?

I'll double check the connections on the hanging anode. It's just a prop shaft zinc hanging on a length of stainless steel wire that is hanging off the pushpit, which I have wired to the negative terminal on the shunt connected to the house bank. I've done connectivity test between the zinc and the engine block, but I'll check again.
scuttlebooty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 10:09   #12
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

If the zinc is just hanging on the wire, it’s likely that isn’t a good enough connection, you need a solid connection, like a hole drilled, tapped and bolted type of thing, or buy a hanging zinc if possible.

If you can buy one, I’d use aluminum as it’s more protective, it seems if you have a mix of aluminum and zinc anodes, the aluminum will waste away first.
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 10:11   #13
Marine Service Provider
 
boatpoker's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Port Credit, Ontario or Bahamas
Boat: Benford 38 Fantail Cruiser
Posts: 7,047
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by scuttlebooty View Post
OK, so let's review.

There's likely a short from the positive to negative, or perhaps from the alternator, and because the entire engine is a negative, this stray current is giving a source of electrons for a galvanic reaction to occur in the raw water loop, thus wasting the anode. Correct?

Both battery negatives (starter and house) do indeed meet at the engine block, and then a third negative goes from there to a negative bus for all the systems.



To clarify, I'm looking for a potential across the battery negative terminal (disconnected) and the negative cable, is that correct?

I'll double check the connections on the hanging anode. It's just a prop shaft zinc hanging on a length of stainless steel wire that is hanging off the pushpit, which I have wired to the negative terminal on the shunt connected to the house bank. I've done connectivity test between the zinc and the engine block, but I'll check again.
Your hanging anode may have a good connection but anodes do not have infinite reach, they must be close to the metal they are supposed to protect.
__________________
If you're not laughing, you're not doin' it right.
boatpoker is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 10:14   #14
Registered User

Join Date: May 2019
Posts: 26
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

To clarify, I coiled the wire around the two bolts holding the two halves of the zinc together and tightened them down hard to help ensure a good connection. May or may not have been sufficient.

That was about the best place I could get. I mean, it's a small boat. So it's maybe 5 feet away from the raw water intake.

Also, I thought zinc was more anodic than aluminum?
scuttlebooty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 20-06-2019, 10:34   #15
Moderator Emeritus
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Jacksonville/ out cruising
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 31,351
Re: Beta 14 eating anodes at a blistering rate

Quote:
Originally Posted by boatpoker View Post
Your hanging anode may have a good connection but anodes do not have infinite reach, they must be close to the metal they are supposed to protect.


I thought electrical connection was what was relevant, not physical proximity?
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Blistering viking blood Construction, Maintenance & Refit 9 22-06-2009 02:56
1979 Cheoy Lee Perry Ketch (fiberglass blistering questions) dang Monohull Sailboats 10 18-08-2007 08:17
Warranty regarding blistering michael201 Construction, Maintenance & Refit 4 09-02-2007 17:27
Hull Blistering bajamas Construction, Maintenance & Refit 6 21-09-2004 05:10

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 20:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.