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Old 31-07-2013, 21:00   #61
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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---> Sending a gallon of hand made vanilla ice cream to Skip! Bon Apetit!

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Don't forget a bar of pure dark chocolate on the side.

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Old 31-07-2013, 21:35   #62
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Never have this problem, cus I do what everybody says is a bad thing! I have a drain in the lowest part of my fuel tank ! which lets me drain any water I may have out of my tank ! I know everybody says its bad, but these valves have saved me many problems over the years! just sayin some thing part bad can be all good sometimes

Why would this be a bad thing?? All aircraft have fuel sumps at the lowest point in their tank or fuel system... seems like it'd be a great idea to me?
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Old 31-07-2013, 22:21   #63
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Why would this be a bad thing?? All aircraft have fuel sumps at the lowest point in their tank or fuel system... seems like it'd be a great idea to me?
My guess is that having any kind of fitting at the bottom of the tank like that is a prime failure or leak point. A fuel tank on a boat (a pleasure yacht anyway) might sit there with 90% of it completely un-inspect-able for three or four decades.
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Old 31-07-2013, 22:24   #64
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

Well, a square peg in a round hole is actually normal timber frame construction. (post and beam.) The round hole is easier to drill, and the corners of the square peg cut into the wood and lock it in place.

It is the round peg in a square hole that is pretty much worthless. (Never let a rocket scientist do your timber framing.)

But apparently diesel fuel has a boiling point way above that of water, so one can fill the tea kettle with watered fuel, boil off the water, and when the steam stops coming off, use the dewatered diesel for the engine. "Lather, rinse, and repeat."

Boiling off diesel fuel on the stove, what could possibly go wrong?
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Old 31-07-2013, 22:58   #65
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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My guess is that having any kind of fitting at the bottom of the tank like that is a prime failure or leak point. A fuel tank on a boat (a pleasure yacht anyway) might sit there with 90% of it completely un-inspect-able for three or four decades.
Yeah, thats kinda what I was thinking. I imagine a fuel sump would be more likely to rust or break on a boat. Still, IDK seems like there should be some way to accomplish that.

Anyway, sorry for hijacking...

Now back to your regularly scheduled thread.

Oh, and even though I have 0 experience aboard a cruising sailboat, my first thought would be to just sail it back to the nearest port. Even if it is 140NM. Greater feats of human endurance have certainly been accomplished. Anchor out, take the dingy to port and get some help/tow/whatever. Thats if my battery was so dead I couldn't use the VHF and didn't have a portable. Otherwise I'd call a towboat. Theres no way I'm going to be cruising in the US and not have tow insurance.

If you left water-contaminated diesel in a shallow container (the bigger the surface area of the container the better), would the water evaporate out of the diesel?? Interesting experiment to conduct perhaps...
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Old 31-07-2013, 23:26   #66
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

We pump from main tanks to header tank for gravity feed to filters.(Battery operated pump but hand pump option can be set up.) Header tank is reasonably accessible and has water bleeding tap in the bottom. Good system thanks to 1st owner.
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Old 31-07-2013, 23:45   #67
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Originally Posted by MTLandlocked View Post

If you left water-contaminated diesel in a shallow container (the bigger the surface area of the container the better), would the water evaporate out of the diesel?? Interesting experiment to conduct perhaps...
No the water sits on the bottom.
You can let the mixture sit and remove usable diesel from the top.
This works with water, or bug contaminated fuel.

A spare independent jerrycan of diesel, together with some fuel hose/fittings so that it can directly feed the engine (don't forget the diesel return line) is I think essential for every cruising boat.

Normally this would be an adequate supply, but it can be supplemented using the above technique if necessary (although reasonably calm conditions are needed for the diesel/water separation to occur)
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Old 31-07-2013, 23:59   #68
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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No the water sits on the bottom.
You can let the mixture sit and remove usable diesel from the top.
This works with water, or bug contaminated fuel.

A spare independent jerrycan of diesel, together with some fuel hose/fittings so that it can directly feed the engine (don't forget the diesel return line) is I think essential for every cruising boat.

Normally this would be an adequate supply, but it can be supplemented using the above technique if necessary (although reasonably calm conditions are needed for the diesel/water separation to occur)
Thanks noelex, I will file that away incase I ever need to use that information. It seemed obvious after I read it, but it just never occurred to me, lol.
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Old 01-08-2013, 00:05   #69
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

Getting the water out of the fuel is not a problem. All he has to do is use the 5' of hose to siphon the water out of the bottom of the tank into another container, bucket perhaps, and bail the fuel of the top of the water using say a cup and pour it back into the fuel tank.

Starting the engine without a battery is a bit more problematic. I used to crank my little Yanmar with all the valves lifted then drop one and get it going on one cylinder then drop the other two but I am not sure I ever pulled a battery down to 10.5 volts and a lot of engines don't have valve lifters. I have seen large diesel engines started by wrapping ropes around pulleys and hauling on them with trucks but it's fraught with potential disasters and not for the faint hearted.

If neither the valve lifting trick or hand cranking are not feasible and there is no other way of charging the battery one would just have to be sensible and find a place to sail into and drop the anchor, you don't have to sail the boat into the pen just get it into the harbor, bay, river, creek etc and anchoring in the nav channel is a pretty certain way of getting assistance although it might be a bit begrudging and the giver might be a bit irate.

The vessel appears to have plenty of sea room to heave to so that the crew can get rested up and with a little seamanship and common sense there should be little risk in the slow cautious approach.
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:10   #70
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--->hands ice cream to everybody...need to lower the temperature in this thread by a few degrees! Don't get too excited!

Mauritz
Choc Choc Chip ice cream...don't interrupt me while I'm eating!
To Mauritz...Thanks this thread was starting to have all the decorum of a Bronx bar fight.

To those who gave input on how to solve the problem... Thanks, many learned from your input.

To those who simply sailed to port, that is great if your home port can be sailed into. Many ports, including mine, can only be sailed into if everything is perfect. Not a prudent option if things are already iffy. Unlike many, I don't carry a dinghy. The alternative is to divert to an easier to enter port. That is a 4-5 mile diversion. It would be more prudent to solve the problem at sea than to divert.

To those who took more pleasure in taking potshots than taking the challenge, no worries.... I've got thick skin and elect not to reply.

Cheers
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Old 01-08-2013, 04:45   #71
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pirate Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

[QUOTE=Rakuflames;1299004
Not going to beat my head against a wall over you. I know not to follow your advice, and that's the important thing. I also know you can't bear to be wrong. [QUOTE]

I would not dream of advising someone who knows Bill Bingham (WTFIH ???).... or who owns a sloop with 3 sails to help her get alongside her berth...
Surprised you did not suggest the 3rd sail as a solution this time for your engine problem... or did it slip your mind..

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Old 01-08-2013, 05:22   #72
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

I bet most of the preachy responders on this thread don't ever check their filters etc and would be in big problem if the "challenge" really happened. "Talk" is cheap!

On the other hand it is interesting in how paranoid some seem to now be getting. I had my engine shutdown this year from a fouled filtered. It hasn't made me do anything other than to remember to check the filter bowl when checking other things on the engine.

This is sailing, chill out a little!

On the plus side, have my 4th person to put on the list.
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Old 01-08-2013, 05:38   #73
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On the plus side, have my 4th person to put on the list.
You likely won't see this...
I got tempted to make my 1st since I joined... but then realised I'd lose 50% of the reading material on here...
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:12   #74
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Just for a second today we thought we might go over a dam instead of through a lock... engine stalled (oops) as we were waiting for the gates to open and the voltage in the battery was not high enough to restart ( invertor). We unplugged the offender and switched to the redundant battery.

We change our primary Racor filter monthly and are paranoid about diesel sources but this thread has me running to buy a funnel filter.

What I was TOLD about those funnel fuel separators was that if the fuel is full of water it will be apparent pretty soon. I don't know if that's true or not as I have never used it. Seems to me if your separator is catching water the person selling the fuel has no right to complain about the time it takes ...

What others said about bringing along other gerrycans of fuel was right, too.
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Old 01-08-2013, 06:20   #75
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

condensation is also found in jerry jugs, not just fuel tanks...

when i frst bought my ericson i had to buy a 600 hour overhaul for the yanmar. we were motoring out of coronado and just at the carrier base the engine poofed a huge oily black smoke ring..... so we shut her down and sailed to the work dock. after we made the perfect landing, we were advised that is a huge no no--i asked why can not one sail into a work dock....seems no one in san diego is able to sail well enough to sweetly land a sailing boat onto a dock without incurring damages--to dock!

i found much less problem since the pick up was placed UNDER tank rather than on top of it...


one with sailing boats should be able to SAIL it into a dock without damages, however, as it is not considered kosher to so do , is why the powers that shouldnt be made seatoad and boatsscrewus, and vessel adrift.....

wtf is a bill bingham


btw---t shirt material and socks make great fuel filters....
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