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Old 31-07-2013, 17:08   #31
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Originally Posted by Snore View Post
Your single-handed and need the power to run the autopilot.

No you don't. Rig a tiller tender.
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:18   #32
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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All are delightful points....

But how would you get the engine running? At some point you will need it to dock. Calling sea tow is not my preferred way to make an entrance!

Then use Boat US. I find absolutely no shame in taking the prudent path to my dock.

If I am single-handing, I'm not going to spend my time trying to rig a water separator. I'm not going to risk getting seasick working below in cramped space smelling noxious smells.

I'm going to figure out how to secure the wheel so I can safely take 15 minute naps now and again. i'm going to make sure I drink plenty of liquids and eat adequately, even if it's just peanut butter on crackers.

But I wouldn't BE out there without a water separator. I have lots of mistakes left to make, but not that one.

Rather than playing McGyver with the fuel system, I would be triple-checking my storm plans, deciding how I'm going to secure my chart so it doesn't accidentally blow overboard, and looking for ways to make myself as comfortable as possible in the cockpit so fatigue takes the least amount of toll possible.

I'd be using my handheld backup radio to try to find other sailboats in the area I might sail with, even if to a different destination, so I wouldn't be completely by myself. I'd make sure my depth line was handy and ready for use without dropping it overboard.

There's a lot of things I'd be doing but none of them would involve trying to make a pig fly. it's a sailboat.
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Old 31-07-2013, 17:56   #33
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

...and in aviation...small aircraft...two fuel tanks are filled to capacity after the completion of every flight, to prevent water condensation in the tanks. During the pre-flight check, three areas are bled of fuel, in a see-through device, to determine the amount of water in the lines and tanks; the gascolator and two fuel tanks' valves located at their lowest points. If an issue is found in a fuel tank (rough engine run) while flying, one can switch to the second tank then get ready to land at the nearest airport to check the problem.

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Old 31-07-2013, 18:02   #34
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Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post

Then use Boat US. I find absolutely no shame in taking the prudent path to my dock.

If I am single-handing, I'm not going to spend my time trying to rig a water separator. I'm not going to risk getting seasick working below in cramped space smelling noxious smells.

I'm going to figure out how to secure the wheel so I can safely take 15 minute naps now and again. i'm going to make sure I drink plenty of liquids and eat adequately, even if it's just peanut butter on crackers.

But I wouldn't BE out there without a water separator. I have lots of mistakes left to make, but not that one.

Rather than playing McGyver with the fuel system, I would be triple-checking my storm plans, deciding how I'm going to secure my chart so it doesn't accidentally blow overboard, and looking for ways to make myself as comfortable as possible in the cockpit so fatigue takes the least amount of toll possible.

I'd be using my handheld backup radio to try to find other sailboats in the area I might sail with, even if to a different destination, so I wouldn't be completely by myself. I'd make sure my depth line was handy and ready for use without dropping it overboard.

There's a lot of things I'd be doing but none of them would involve trying to make a pig fly. it's a sailboat.
And that is the difference between us.

A few weeks ago, I had an air leak in my fuel line. I thought I had it beat whence first happened offshore, but it was not solved. I turned around at the Hillsboro Inlet sea buoy, put the boat on autopilot heading 090 while I sorted it out. There were squalls coming through and as I worked on the engine I poked my head out to check for traffic that did not transmit an AIS signal.

In the end I did 99% solve it and brought the boat back on my own. That is both more personally rewarding and will make me better at this level of boating than using Sea Tow.

But to each his/her own.
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Old 31-07-2013, 18:30   #35
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

i have had consistent fuel delivery problems while sailing mexico's west coast---is a lee shore, and is important to have everything working well so rocks do not eat your boat, as they have some others.
we have had to bleed system multiple times, as pick up was improper, we had one instance of dirty fuel-=- so we filtered fuel thru t shirt material...fixed that problem....we managed to sail/drift/leapfrog under partial power into an anchorage in zihuatenejo in darkness and anchor without problem, and with less than half ounce of fuel in the return hose, absolutely none in tank....
when we have had a problem we have repaired it. then we entered port. or we entered port and repaired it.....
when my engine did runaway due to fuel delivery problems--i was towed into marina by a fisherman. no problem.

we must be unusual.
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Old 31-07-2013, 18:52   #36
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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And that is the difference between us.

A few weeks ago, I had an air leak in my fuel line. I thought I had it beat whence first happened offshore, but it was not solved. I turned around at the Hillsboro Inlet sea buoy, put the boat on autopilot heading 090 while I sorted it out. There were squalls coming through and as I worked on the engine I poked my head out to check for traffic that did not transmit an AIS signal.

In the end I did 99% solve it and brought the boat back on my own. That is both more personally rewarding and will make me better at this level of boating than using Sea Tow.

But to each his/her own.

Oh ... now we've changed the problem from waterlogged fuel to an air bubble?

You think I wouldn't bleed the engine of an air bubble?

I wonder what the HELL it was I was doing that day then ... but you must be right. I didn't bleed the fuel line. I called Boat US. You're right; I'm wrong. OK.
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Old 31-07-2013, 18:58   #37
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

Been there (phase separated gas, no panels, failed batteries on delivery run).

Mostly sailed.

Pull-start the engines (many cats run on twin outboards). Feed them with gas bailed from the top of the tank with a 35mm film can, poured into an empty Gatorade bottle duct-taped to the bulkhead.

Or sail in dead-stick to any convenient bulkhead, even single handed... or you shouldn't single hand.

No problem.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:10   #38
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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Been there (phase separated gas, no panels, failed batteries on delivery run).

Mostly sailed.

Pull-start the engines (many cats run on twin outboards). Feed them with gas bailed from the top of the tank with a 35mm film can, poured into an empty Gatorade bottle duct-taped to the bulkhead.

No problem.

I would sail. I would not dock the boat under sail because of traits regarding getting to my slip that don't make it prudent, although I might try it if I were coming up to a T-dock with no boat in front of me. When I replace the bottom unit on my roller furler, I'm going to start practicing that.

The difference between me and Snort is that I would not try to get the engine started. I would sail home, or to another location where I could get good fuel. I don't have the knowledge and skills to re-rig my fuel lines. We just heard someone saying to try to sail within one's skills. However, I can sail the boat. I can't jury-rig the fuel. Among other things, I can't *reach* my fuel tank. It's in a deep lazarette and I cannot myself get in and out of there. that's just a fact about me and my boat.

So to the original problem as posed, I say -- sometimes we state a problem so that it will lead to only one solution. Sometimes the wise thing to do is to reposition how we think about the problem. If I were in that situation, I would have no choice but to redefine the problem.

However, a waterlogged fuel supply 18 hours from shore is a much different problem than an air bubble outside an inlet.

I say that, but I've never had to bleed my new engine. It is, essentially self-bleeding most of the time although the manual does include the standard instructions for bleeding the engine. I did bleed the old one while out sailing, however.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:18   #39
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pirate Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

You'd be surprised what one can do when your engine dies or a fouled prop bends your shaft... I sailed up the ICW from Beaufort NC to Oriental and into Whittaker Creek right up to Sailcraft boatyards travel lift dock with a badly bent shaft... just gotta believe in yourself... earned the nickname of 'Turnaround Phil' with that one.. LOL
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:29   #40
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

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You'd be surprised what one can do when your engine dies or a fouled prop bends your shaft... I sailed up the ICW from Beaufort NC to Oriental and into Whittaker Creek right up to Sailcraft boatyards travel lift dock with a badly bent shaft... just gotta believe in yourself... earned the nickname of 'Turnaround Phil' with that one.. LOL

Are you talking about docking under sail? Did you MISS the part where I said the lower unit on my roller furler has to be replaced? Right now it's all or nothing for my headsail. i've said this before -- it will pop out completely in 5 mph of wind. It HAS done that.

It's all or nothing for my headsail right now. Thanks, but I've helped some of the best sail their boats in, and they play that headsail like a violin.

When you ignore a person's legitimate reasons to not do something, you can't expect them to take your advice seriously. I know a number of very good sailors who all have said the same thing to me -- "No, don't try to sail that boat in -- not with that furler." That was after they encouraged me to do it, but before I explained about my roller furler.

It would have been great to hear "Why do you think you shouldn't do that?"

It's also why I've been at the dock this summer. We've had lots of storms. My boat sails like ship under headsail only, and double that in bad weather, but it's all or nothing for the headsail.

Yes, it's going to be fixed, but unexpected other expenses, along with what turned out in the end to be a broken bone in my foot, has temporarily sidelined me.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:35   #41
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pirate Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rakuflames View Post
Are you talking about docking under sail? Did you MISS the part where I said the lower unit on my roller furler has to be replaced? Right now it's all or nothing for my headsail. i've said this before -- it will pop out completely in 5 mph of wind. It HAS done that.

It's all or nothing for my headsail right now. Thanks, but I've helped some of the best sail their boats in, and they play that headsail like a violin.

When you ignore a person's legitimate reasons to not do something, you can't expect them to take your advice seriously. I know a number of very good sailors who all have said the same thing to me -- "No, don't try to sail that boat in -- not with that furler." That was after they encouraged me to do it, but before I explained about my roller furler.

It would have been great to hear "Why do you think you shouldn't do that?"

It's also why I've been at the dock this summer. We've had lots of storms. My boat sails like ship under headsail only, and double that in bad weather, but it's all or nothing for the headsail.

Yes, it's going to be fixed, but unexpected other expenses, along with what turned out in the end to be a broken bone in my foot, has temporarily sidelined me.
For Buddha's Sake... give the ego a break... not every post is about you... that was aimed at the forum in general...
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:38   #42
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

My guess:

1) Sail to anchoring range.
2) Hip tie the dinghy if you're not 100% of your landfall option.

But just in general if I took on crappy fuel? I have a small 12 gallon tank because my big 125 rusted and leaked. So anything more than the 12 is in gerry cans. For longer passages where I anticipate no wind I'll grab an 80 liter panga tank (for 80 pesos).

I'd probably do a mixture of the baja strainer, switching my Racors back and forth as I drain the water out of the bottoms, and using the safety siphon to grab diesel from the gerry cans that's not quite at the bottom (sucking up crud and water).

I have an accessory fuel lift pump. If I turn that on (key to "on", but don't start the engine) it will cycle the fuel tank through the racors, the yanmar bouncing it back into the tank. So that would polish up the fuel pretty quick.

One of the "advantages" to a tiny fuel tank is that if there's a problem it's not really a big problem.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:40   #43
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

And honestly beyond dirty fuel, I've seen two boats in a year who totally blew out their transmissions. They sailed as close as they could get into a bay, anchored, waited for flat conditions, hip tied their dinghy, and got other people in a marina or at a dock to assist.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:46   #44
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Oh ... now we've changed the problem from waterlogged fuel to an air bubble?

You think I wouldn't bleed the engine of an air bubble?

I wonder what the HELL it was I was doing that day then ... but you must be right. I didn't bleed the fuel line. I called Boat US. You're right; I'm wrong. OK.


No my dear the point is where many have no qualms calling for a tow, I prefer to work things out on my own. The reference in my post was an example of that.

For the record, the example was not an air bubble but a vacuum leak in the diesel feed line that continued to let air in. Hence, bleeding the line only gave temporary relief.

If the post was offensive in some way I do apologize.
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Old 31-07-2013, 19:46   #45
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Re: Bad Fuel Challenge

You must have an enormous amount of water in your fuel tank. Did it just get into the tank? Surely you have ran your engine in teh recent past.

Does your filter have a drain plug on it? That is one easy way to purge much of the water. There are other methods of course but not available while floating off shore. And as others have said, sail!
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