Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 24-12-2010, 07:42   #16
Registered User
 
Don1500's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: On Board, just above the water
Boat: Marine Trader 47
Posts: 1,176
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
Thank you all for your comments.

The interesting aspects, is where can I go from here, there is No Tohatsu office in Australia and Tohatsu Japan, does not except emails from the public
In Japan:
Headquarters
5-4 Azusawa 3-Chome, Itabashi-ku, Tokyo 174-0051, JAPAN
General Affairs Dept.
Tel: 03 (3966) 3111
Fax: 03 (3966) 7667
Marine Sales (overseas) Tel: 03 (3966) 3117
Fax: 03 (3966) 0090
Website
http://www.tohatsu.co.jp/en/index.html
Service information.
infoex@tohatsu.co.jp

In Australia:
LAKESIDE MARINE PTY. LTD.
19, ARIZONA ROAD
CHARMHAVEN NSW 2263, AUSTRALIA
61-43-92-6110 (TEL)
61-43-92-1587 (FAX)
Email: sales@lakesidemarineptyltd.com
URL: http://www.tohatsu.com.au
__________________

__________________
The Nomad Blog Mother, mother ocean, I have heard you call
Everything I know about cruising I learned from Travis McGee - http://theroamingnomad.com
Don1500 is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 16:18   #17
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Agreed

Quote:
Originally Posted by never monday View Post
agreed, but to have a one sided bashfest of what my be a good vendor is a bit unnecessary.
If this is allowed than what about the deadbeat boat owners?

When I read threads like this.....I always wonder what part of the story aren't we getting?
__________________

__________________
Chief Engineer is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 16:54   #18
Registered User
 
beau's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
Images: 1
Thank you Don 1500, I hope i don't need it.

Chief engineer,
I bought and paid for two motors and I did not get the service i expected.
I spoke with 4 other outboard dealers and they all agreed that the dealer is responsible for getting the right props for the motors. (standard practise)
I am only asking for " industry standard practise" nothing more.

the concern I have, is that in our new modern society, honesty and integrity have gone out the window.

Also, I wish to alert other cruisers to be carefull when buying an outboard motor for displacement boats.
__________________
beau is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 17:10   #19
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
I bought and paid for two motors and I did not get the service i expected.
what exactly are / were your expectations?
__________________
never monday is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 19:25   #20
Registered User
 
beau's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
Images: 1
I have purchased a number of outboards over the last 20 years.

In all cases in the past after the dealer installed the motor, we both went for a run in the boat to check for the right rev's and the dealer then changed out the prop's until we had it right.

In this case not only was I charged $1,000 more than the standard rate for installation. There was no introduction to the use of the motors and No run in the boat. I asked about the correct prop size and was told they would fix that during the first service (10 hours)

After motoring back to the marina from the slipway, i could not get the rev's above 3,000.
I went to the dealer and he swapped over to a finer pitch prop(a mercury prop). Now I was getting 4,500 revs.
I reported this back to him. He told me Tohatsu did not make smaller pitch prop's than the one I had and that I would need a specialist to repitch the prop at MY cost.
He also said I would veto my warranty if I continued to use the props he had given me.
A propeller specialist warned me about repitching an aluminium 14X11 to a 14X9. in his experience, the blades would fall off after a month or two.

I contacted the Australian distributor with copies of the emails between myself and the dealer.
What I got back was a shock, the distributor wanted nothing to do with it.
All I got was a load of spin, how these motors were designed for planeing boats and the problem was all mine.

However, yesterday I did get an email from the dealer offering some form of support, we shall see.
__________________
beau is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 19:37   #21
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Ok now I understand.....You had engines for a planing type hull that you want to use on a displacement hull.

What type of engines were you replacing?

A finer pitched prop will probably get you the rpms you desire.

I just don't understand what the need is to get 5,000-5500 rpms on a displacement hull
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 19:42   #22
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
"He also said I would veto my warranty if I continued to use the props he had given me."

that is absolutely correct. He gave you the lowest offered pitch from Tohatsu. It still isn't enough to allow the engine to achieve operating RPM on your vessel.
This implies you need larger engines to push the boat in an acceptable RPM range.

For him to provide correct pitch, NON STANDARD Tohatsu propellers. Would mean he would probably assume warranty responsibility. Tohatsu would have clear grounds to deny any and all claims.

I think much more discussion is warranted before lynching the dealer.
__________________
never monday is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 19:54   #23
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
Tohatsu Outboard Parts - Props and Hardware

I also checked Michigan Wheel.

If it isn't on the list of available wheels from Tohatsu....he is not going to assume responsibility for another aftermarket wheel. Tohatsu would hang him out to dry.....
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 20:47   #24
Registered User
 
beau's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
Images: 1
This is my last attempt to try and explain.

ALL Tohatsu propellers are sourced from Mercury, in fact I believe Tohatsu is partly owned by Mercury.
The propeller the dealer supplied, a 14X11 has a Mercury part number on it.
Mercury do have available a 14X 9 so it has NOTHING to do with putting a Mercury part on a Tohatsu motor.
__________________
beau is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 20:50   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
This is my last attempt to try and explain.

ALL Tohatsu propellers are sourced from Mercury, in fact I believe Tohatsu is partly owned by Mercury.
The propeller the dealer supplied, a 14X11 has a Mercury part number on it.
Mercury do have available a 14X 9 so it has NOTHING to do with putting a Mercury part on a Tohatsu motor.
it has everything to do with it. The 14x9 doesn't have a Tohatsu part number. Therefor in the eyes of the attorneys and risk managers it doesn't exist.
__________________
never monday is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 21:37   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: southcoast ontario ca
Boat: Georgian 23 Whiskeyjack
Posts: 296
Images: 1
I understand the dealer's concerns. Just because a prop is available doesn't mean it should be installed. Ford has a 6 litre V-8 available, but that doesn't mean it is designed to be installed in a Fiesta. I am troubled by your insistence on higher rpms on a displacement hull. Hull speed is hull speed- you can't beat the mathematics.
__________________
bljones is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 21:49   #27
Eternal Member
 
Chief Engineer's Avatar

Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
A man,
convinced against his will,
is of the same opinion,
still.
__________________
Chief Engineer is offline  
Old 24-12-2010, 21:50   #28
Senior Cruiser
 
Sailmonkey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Houston
Boat: '76 Allied Seawind II, 32'
Posts: 5,780
Quote:
Originally Posted by bljones View Post
I understand the dealer's concerns. Just because a prop is available doesn't mean it should be installed. Ford has a 6 litre V-8 available, but that doesn't mean it is designed to be installed in a Fiesta. I am troubled by your insistence on higher rpms on a displacement hull. Hull speed is hull speed- you can't beat the mathematics.
hull speed is hull speed, but if you're lugging the engines to get there you need a different prop. This is no different than having a yanmar that only acheives 2200 rpm in gear when it should acheive 3600. the goal isn't to make the boat faster, but to allow the engines to "breathe"
__________________
Sailmonkey is online now  
Old 25-12-2010, 01:14   #29
Registered User
 
beau's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Brisbane Australia
Posts: 757
Images: 1
Quote:
Hull speed is hull speed- you can't beat the mathematics.
Sorry you are wrong. My boat has a theoritical hull speed of 8 knots yet is does 15 knots. and it is not planeing.
It does not sit on top of the water but slices through the water.
To plane you need the right hull shape and 60 hp/per ton, my power to weight ratio is 25hp/ton

Why, because it has a very fine angle of entry,triangular hull shape and a flat bottom.
No bow wave is produced and the stern wave flattens out after 10 knots.
Don't believe it, just look at all the fast displacement catamaran and trimaran ferries and the latest USA naval vessels sourced from Australia.

Chief engineer, what are you trying to say?

Bljones, well why are Tohatsu suggesting a prop repitching to stay in warranty. ( but at my cost)

Sorry, I wasn't going to reply to all those negative uninformed responses but i could not resist. i suppose that is the internet for better or for worse.
__________________
beau is offline  
Old 25-12-2010, 05:18   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
Quote:
Originally Posted by beau View Post
Bljones, well why are Tohatsu suggesting a prop repitching to stay in warranty. ( but at my cost)
The engineers at Tohatsu / Nissan Marine have established parameters the engine should be run in to achieve minimum emissions, maximum longevity and minimum warranty claims.
There are known formulas to calculate performance from a current result. The dealer has determined that you need less pitch on your prop.
The dealer AND the manufacturer do not offer the prop pitch you require.

Quote:
Sorry, I wasn't going to reply to all those negative uninformed responses but i could not resist. i suppose that is the internet for better or for worse.
The replies you are getting are only negative and uniformed because they don't support your preconceived desired result.


Now, In my honest opinion.

You cheaped out and bought the smallest / least expensive engine you could, to push the boat. Probably thinking it would save you on fuel. Now your looking for someone to provide you with a bandaid fix to make it work. I support the dealer in this problem. You are trying to use a product outside of the manufacturers design parameters. Your on your own.

Thanks, have a nice day
__________________

__________________
never monday is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Bad Experience in Sidney, BC joebigsky Pacific & South China Sea 19 16-11-2015 11:02
Teak Dealers in Vancouver or Online ? rdempsey Construction, Maintenance & Refit 5 07-04-2010 09:52



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 13:37.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.