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23-08-2008, 11:19
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 5
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Auto parts in diesel engine
I'm writing a novel which includes a boat explosion and wanted some advice/clarification. In my novel, a character who owns a fishing boat uses cheaper auto parts to replace worn-out marine diesel parts in an effort to save money. Another character does some work on the boat after the auto parts have been put in, but doesn't know about the auto parts. If you are doing maintenance on a boat's engine (inboard diesel for a 30-40' trawler), would you know immediately if certain engine parts were in fact auto parts, or would you have to be looking for that? I want to know how likely it is that someone could work on the cooling system of a marine diesel engine and not see that some engine parts (say, in the crankcase) were actually auto parts.
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23-08-2008, 11:47
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Slovenia not Slovakia; gulf of Triest
Boat: owned a 6m single hull sailing boat, a HIRONDELL 23 cat and chartered modern +8m ELAN boats
Posts: 79
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marine engine is bigger couse there's not a lot of weight and space problem. outside the block u can change different tubes (cooling tubes), wires, fuses etc; don't know for inside the block/ cover
maybe something to consider in your case also -> non original parts can be a big problem. it can brake in a period of weeks!
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Rosso di sera, bel tempo si spera. Rosso di mattina, mal tempo si avvicina
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23-08-2008, 11:50
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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For a marinized diesel, some parts are exactly the same as the parts that would go in a vehicle and some are completely different. Some parts would be very different such as having a heat exchanger and some parts might appear exactly the same such as an injector or head gasket.
Yes, someone could have problems using a part for a vehicle on a marinized diesel.
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David
Life begins where land ends.
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23-08-2008, 12:11
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 77
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I'm curious about this as I thought virtually all smaller marine diesels were essentially marinized versions of 'auto' diesel engines, usually tractor engines. The marinization would primarily be in the cooling exhaust system, and there wouldn't be 'auto' versions of these parts. I'm hard pressed to think of a part that would exist on both the 'auto' and 'marine' versions and not be interchangable. Case in point, Beta engines, marinized versions of a Kubota tractor engine, the parts can be bought at a Kubota tractor dealer, and their literature makes that point, as does their parts manual. The exception would be the marinization parts, i.e. the heat exchanger, sea water pump, etc. that wouldn't exist on the tractor version to begin with. This is true for most 'modern' engines, but possible an older diesel might have some true parts differences to fit your needs.
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23-08-2008, 12:30
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#5
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Eastern Tennessee
Boat: Research vessel for a university, retired now.
Posts: 10,406
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Are Yanmars or Volvo's used in tractors? I don't know. I don't think too many 30-50 HP tractors exist anymore...not in the states at least with gigantic corporate owned farms. I know most cars now are at least 100 Hp. 100 Hp for a small yacht diesel is pretty big.
I know Cummins makes B series five liter diesels for both trucks and boats. From what I have seen, there are lots of parts that are different. Boats and trucks work in two completely different environments and have different work loads. Boats tend to work at a steady speed and sustain most of their time at higher outputs. 80-90% sustained output for a boat is not unusual. 80-90% sustained for a truck is virtually unheard of. Generally, the marine versions have to be beefier for this reason. This means better heat dissipation, beefier valves and valve guides and other things.
The engineers know what they are doing when they put different parts on a marine engine because they do not want them to break under a higher sustained load and harsher environment than that of trucks.
The new tier two engines are computer controlled and you can bet that you would not be able to change over parts without the computer "knowing" it. There are sensors and computer controlled parts all over those engines now.
I don't think the prices and the different parts are there because they know they can rip off boaters "because they have more money". I think it much more amounts to service duty and operating environment.
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David
Life begins where land ends.
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23-08-2008, 12:44
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#6
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Registered User
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: On the boat - Carib, Chesapeake
Boat: 58 Taswell AS
Posts: 1,139
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Hope you do better than Patterson's novel -"Sail" which was riddled with errors. It is unlikely that a diesel powered boat would explode in any situation; it could burn but diesel is not likely to lead to an explosion. This is, in fact, on of the advantages of diesel power. In most cases of evident by inspection would be identical aon diesel and gas powered engines - belts, oil filters, alternators(although higher output), starters, etc. Other parts, not seen, would be difficult to substitute - crank shaft, pistons, piston rings, etc. Get a good consultant!
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23-08-2008, 12:47
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2008
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M
Are Yanmars or Volvo's used in tractors?
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If I recall correctly current Volvo's are marinized Mitsubishis (or one of the other major Asian engines), and I believe Yanmars are as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by David M
I don't think too many 30-50 HP tractors exist anymore...not in the states at least with gigantic corporate owned farms.
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Tons and tons of them when you get into the rest of the world.
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23-08-2008, 14:37
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David M
I don't think too many 30-50 HP tractors exist anymore...
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Many of these engines are also used as industrial engines, driving pumps, generators, etc. in oilfields and other heavy industry all over the world. They have very similar duty cycles to marine engines. They don't just take engines destined for some little auto and beef them up. The marinization, as previously noted, is primarily in the cooling system and controls, plus it's mated with a reverse gear.
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23-08-2008, 14:58
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#9
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 21
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I am currently living in a remote area of the Sierras and there are probably ten 30-50hp diesel tractors with 15 miles of my property.
Also diesel doesn't explode like gasoline I have a friend who used to throw his cigarettes into a bucket of diesel to put them out.
Perhaps your character could use cheap parts such as a fuel filter for an onboard gas powered generator or have saved money having a local do some wiring work at the generator that could certainly cause explosive problems
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WHEN YOU ARE ONE STEP AHEAD OF THE CROWD YOU ARE A GENIUS /WHEN YOU ARE TWO STEPS AHEAD OF THE CROWD YOU ARE A CRACKPOT -- SHLOMO RISKIN
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23-08-2008, 15:18
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Thibodaux, Louisiana
Boat: Monk 36 Trawler
Posts: 679
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Blown up by using willfit parts?! It doesn't seem very exciting to me, how about a pirate attack or mis guided missle?
Just Kidding
good luck on the book
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23-08-2008, 15:35
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#11
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Eternal Member
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: North of Baltimore
Boat: Ericson 27 & 18' Herrmann Catboat
Posts: 3,798
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I hope your book doesn't start like this.
It was a Dark and Stormy Night.....
or
While watching the sunset go down while at anchor at......
the best way to start is
You ain't gonna believe this $hit.......
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23-08-2008, 16:26
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#12
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: East Coast of America and Keys
Boat: Beneteau 473
Posts: 467
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How about using lithium Ion batteries as the source of ignition. The owner of the boat could install some state of the art Li-Ion cells not made for a marine application and the maint guy could plug them into a battery charger not rated for lithium batteries then the whole marine could burn down. All the gas boats could give you the explosions you are looking for.
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23-08-2008, 17:17
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#13
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Seattle
Boat: Schock 35
Posts: 157
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How about just filling the fuel tank with gasoline instead of diesel?
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23-08-2008, 17:49
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Sunshine Coast, Qld, Australia
Boat: CyberYacht 43
Posts: 5,174
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Just keep the raw water seacock closed...
Just keeping the raw water seacock closed could do the trick with an inexperienced crew.
No cooling water > engine overheats severely > engine/fuel catches fire > not noticed immediately > burns to waterline.
I believe this happened to some poor soul who was taking his intended out to propose...
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23-08-2008, 18:04
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#15
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Registered User
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,901
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both the concept of the books author. As well as several post to this thread are riddled with errors.
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