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Old 16-03-2015, 19:11   #1
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At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Thanks in advance for any advice.

One of my Perkins normally aspirated, no common rail M92's decided to stop, and stay stopped.

At first I thought it was fuel contamination, but after changing the primary and secondary filters, bleeding the system to the top of the low pressure on the secondary filter, I get cranking but no ignition.

I have fuel with no air coming out of the top of the secondary filter banjo when using the lift pump, so the issue has to be between there and the atomisers.

I've loosened off the high pressure connectors to the atomisers, but am not getting either air or fuel out of them. That is after probably 20 or more 15 second cycles of the starter.

It's a new boat for me, and I have never had Perkins before. The manuals I have don't address this failure.

My question - Is there an electric or mechanical cut-out that may be engaged or not engaging that stops fuel flow from the low pressure side to the high pressure side, and if so, what should I look for.

I'm 40nm off the coast, in a safe anchorage, and still have another engine if needs be, but would prefer to fix the deadun before pulling the pick.

Any advice more than welcome.
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Old 16-03-2015, 19:29   #2
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

My Westerbeke Gen did something similar.
It has a solenoid activated magnet as a kill switch. When the ignition circuit is activated this plunger is retracted allowing fuel to flow into the engine.

Once I figured out it wasn't moving as it should. I just pulled the rubber boot back, and lubed the piston and have not had a problem since.

Sorry, I have no idea if your Perkins is similar.
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Old 16-03-2015, 19:33   #3
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Yes, there is a fuel cut off. I don't know whether it is an electrical solenoid or a manual cable on that engine though. You will have to try to locate it in the area of the high pressure pump.
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Old 16-03-2015, 19:45   #4
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

I have a different engine, but coincidently was broke down at anchor a couple of months ago with the same symptoms.

You say clean fuel is present at the output banjo bolt of the lift pump. But nothing at the injectors.

What about at the input to the Injector pump? I had air there that had nowhere to go. Once I bled the banjo bolt at the input to the injector pump I was good.

The next spin over put fuel out the injector lines. Tightened them up and it cranked right up.

However, I was bleeding after a lift pump replacement where as you still need to find the malfunction.
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Old 16-03-2015, 19:53   #5
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Ah, the joys of engine bleeding.
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Old 16-03-2015, 19:54   #6
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Look around the injection high pressure pump - normally there is a lever with either an electrical solenoid or manual cable pull that activates the lever to shut off the fuel supply to the injection pump and stop the engine.
In other words, look around and follow whatever you use to shut down the engine normally when it is running. It might be that this control is either disconnected or jammed in the "shut off" position.
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Old 16-03-2015, 20:13   #7
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Sounds like air in the lines. Start at the filter, check for fuel, then follow the hose to the small filter and manual pump on the side of the motor. Unhook the line going to the injector pump. The is a little lever on the side of the pump. Pump that till you get fuel there hook line back up and open all ejectors Turn motor over till fuel comes out of injectors If no fuel comes out look at the shut off on the ejector pump change that position on the enjector pump manually if you have to. Turn motor and see if fuel comes out. When it does close one enjector at a time till it starts and if so send me a beer. Hope this helps
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Old 17-03-2015, 05:56   #8
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

I have a Perkins 4236. I sat for three days working through the problem of a no start - on anchor also. Thoughts to add to the posts already. Check there is no blockage that is pre filter, i assume filters are clean, that might slow the rate of flow badly, its possible fuel is coming out of the banjo and simply not enough.
If you have fuel from secondary filter then as suggested break the connection at the input to the injector pump and ensure a good constant flow coming out.
After that then you will have as suggested checked there is no problem with the shut off, either manual or electric. If that is sound and you cannot get flow out to the atomisers then you may have to consider the injector pump has failed!
Before that deep breath moment crack all the atomisers and crank away to attempt to get fuel through any air block at the pump. I tried that for ten minutes before giving up and resigned myself to a pump refurb.
I also had connected a jerry can directly to the manual lift with an electric pump running before it to push fuel through, a bit of overkill but reassured me there was no fuel restriction pre manual lift and enough fuel supply to injector pump. Good luck and fingers crossed for an easy resolve.
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Old 17-03-2015, 08:14   #9
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Any smell of diesel coming out of the exhaust? I'll bet the fuel cut-off..
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Old 17-03-2015, 09:24   #10
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

I just had the same problem with my Perkins, spent hours bleeding lines to no avail, had a diesel mechanic come, he found that although the engine was cranking, there was a voltage drop at the starter, it was down to 8 volts when cranking, found a bad ground cable, replaced it and started immediately, this would have been my last thought as the engine was cranking at the speed I had always thought was normal, good luck!
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Old 17-03-2015, 09:49   #11
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

Not sure about your perkins, but on my 4-108 it is possible, actually very easy, to replace the engine mounted fuel filter incorrectly so that no fuel will go past it. Only cost me $300 to find that out.
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Old 17-03-2015, 09:56   #12
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

I had a problem many years ago with a Perkins that would only run for a few minutes and then stop. See if what I describe has any relevance to your engine . . .

Loosen the pipe fitting from the lift pump to the secondary filter and check to see if the lift pump is pumping fuel when you crank the engine. It is possible that you have a torn or damaged diaphram inside the lift pump.

Then follow the fuel supply pipe from the lift pump to the secondary filter. This is a filter that is mounted on the engine itself and is between the lift pump and the high pressure injection pump. Some engine have one and some don't.

Remove the fuel supply pipe from the lift pump where it goes into the secondary filter. With a flashlight and probe inspect to see if there is a little rubber type collar/gasket down inside the cavity that the fuel supply pipe fits into place. Sometimes this little collar/gasket breaks down and blocks the fuel flow.

Removing the fuel outlet pipe from the secondary filter and see if fuel spurts out when the engine is cranked. If yes, then re-install the fuel pipe and disconnect/loosen the other end of the pipe where it goes into the injector high pressure pump. Again fuel should spurt out when the engine is cranked. If not there maybe a blockage in that piece of pipe.

If by now you have had fuel spurting out of the various test places then loosen an injector supply pipe that runs from the injector pump to an injector. If with some cranking for a minute or so no fuel is coming out then most probably the injector high pressure pump is faulty.

**** WARNING ***** Excessive engine cranking with the raw water supply to the engine open can flood your exhaust hose/pipe and cause sea water to back up into the engine cylinders through the exhaust valves.
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Old 17-03-2015, 11:40   #13
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

The Perkins 4.236 (85Hp) has an electric shut-off (E.S.O) in the Bosh rotary injector pump. This solenoid is voltage sensitive and must be energized to run the diesel. If you cannot bleed a Perkins up to the injectors within two or three minutes with a lift pump, check the injector pump ESO before replaceing all the fuel filters. You stated that you had oil at the secondary, on engine, fuel filter but not at the injectors. The rotary injection pump w/ ESO is the only component between them in that system.
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Old 17-03-2015, 12:09   #14
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

has the same problem 100 miles off the coast of Haiti and then was becalmed for 20 hours. Your lucky

My Perkins 6cyl died and 3 cyl Yanmar Gen kept working.

If your engine is turning over and you have compression and the fuel is coming out of the banjo fitting there is good chance it is your fuel injection pump.

There is a rod inside the pump which controls the fuel flow and if that rod gets the slightest bit coated with crap from the fuel it stops working and the fuel won't flow.

The Yanmar fuel pump will work with the same fuel that stops the Perkins pump.

The coating on that rod is hard to see but is enough to stop it from functioning. You have to take the fuel pump part clean the rod put the pump back together. A delicate precise job.

After I polished the fuel in my tank, changed filters, cleaned the lines the same thing happened again and had to redo fuel pump.,

The problem turned out to be in the racer filter.

I found the crap in the vortex part of my racor filters. I took the racor apart and used q tips to reach in and get the crap out. It took 62 q tips.

After I started using biobor in the fuel I never (6 years ) have had the problem again.
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Old 17-03-2015, 18:57   #15
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Re: At Anchor with Dead Perkins - Advice needed

FYI. I believe that the M92 has a 24 Volt solenoid to shut off the fuel at the injector pump. There should be an electrical panel above the starter with a relay and other electrical items that step the 12 volt system up to operate this 24volt solenoid. You might want to check the voltage at the solenoid for some failure of this panel. We have an 00, and an 02 M92 with this setup. Good luck !
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