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Old 17-11-2012, 06:59   #1
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Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

Ok leaving charleston harbor for a solo sail to ft pierce. Engine revs slightly then loses power gradually till dead. After changing filters, lines, lift pump and 3times though bleed procedure no start. So now I'm servicing the starter cause the solenoid gave a puff of smoke and engine rolled slower after last bleed. I read another post of literally same sequence of events where someone used wd40 as starting fluid with positive results. I'm outside boot key now giving solar a chance to catch up on all the overnite sails. I'm wondering if anyone uses a vacuum tester/pump for bleeding. Would seem if you replaced a bleeder screw with the type used on brakes you could vacuum bleed the system and not have diesel running into the bilge and no chance of air entering when tightening. Anyway I'm giving another attempt today. The cuts and scratches on my arms are about healed up from last attempt. If not its no motor for my sail to tampa bay where I have access to more tools and resources.
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Old 17-11-2012, 07:12   #2
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Re: another bleeding dilemna 4.108

Sometimes a squirt of WD40, into the air intake, will help start a reluctant diesel.

N.8 ➥ http://nacnud.info/elysianboats/pdf/perkins.pdf
Or ➥ Bleeding the Perking Diesel
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Old 17-11-2012, 11:42   #3
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Re: another bleeding dilemna 4.108

I've not heard of anyone using a vacuum tester to bleed a diesel. I've seen bulb pumps used to get the diesel up to the injection pump. Have one aboard?

WD40 does work as a starting fluid. Regular starting fluid for an emergency situation. The engine needs to spin quite fast so your batteries need to be topped up. Does your Perkins have glow plugs?

Are you bleeding at each injector?

Good luck and I hope she fires.

kind regards,
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Old 17-11-2012, 11:57   #4
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

an outboard bulb or a mini electric pump is very nice for bleeding after changing filters etc. On that old boat you could have a fuel blockage somwehere though. If the engine revved and then died you ran out of fuel... somehow....
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Old 17-11-2012, 14:25   #5
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

We had this problem in Bermuda after I changed out the lift pump. It did take three tries before we managed to get all the air out. I suggest you start over and make sure you get all the bleed points on the injection pump and the injectors. Took me a day and a half!
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Old 17-11-2012, 14:48   #6
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

Ok I'm in for another try at bleeding and bought a can of wd40 when I went ashore at marathon. First have to address slow crank issue. Battery read 12.7 cold. I removed starter and resurfaced all the usual culprit contact points and still cranks too slow. Taking to advance auto and testing the starter and battery tomorrow. Been thru all the cable connections at battery engine and starter. Not a bad place to be here for service at marathon, but a pretty long ride in from marker 1. Will post back after testing done. No glow plugs or cold start on engine, have an electric pump installed online for bleeding. I've pumped a LOT of fuel thru the system in the 3 bleeds. I have a self bleeding filter with no bleed screw there. I'm wondering why bleeding instructions bleed fuel line from filter to injection pump after head locking screw and air vent. Backing up in bleeding process doesn't seem right.
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Old 17-11-2012, 16:41   #7
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

The last bleed point should be at the injectors I would think. That's always worked for me.
Yes, slow cranking speed does not help.
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Old 17-11-2012, 17:03   #8
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

If you have a Racor the bottom of the bowl may be dirty and changing the filter won't help. Don't ask how I know, I wasted a lot of filters, I also had to bleed it at the injectors.
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Old 17-11-2012, 17:49   #9
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

If you are doing a lot of cranking without starting the engine, did you shut off the cooling water thru-hull valve? If not, your "slow" starter could be due to water in the cylinders which has backed up from the exhaust!

the 4108 needs to be bled first at the racor, then at the CAV filter (crack the bolt which secures the fuel line to the IP) then at the IP. Once that is done so that you see no bubbles (we are taking about maybe 400 strokes on the little finger lever on the lift pump) then it is time to crack the injectors, give full throttle, close the thru-hull, and crank the engine. After 20 seconds, tighten the injectors one-by-one. If its running, don't forget to open the thru-hull.
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Old 17-11-2012, 19:20   #10
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

Hi, when did you last change your oil and filters? there are two oilways in the block that block up if the oil in a 4108 is not changed regularly, this then means your valve train gets no or little oil and consquent wear on the train which can cause binding of the train. I remember when the 4108 first came on the market and as we were used to running 4107's with a longer oil change timeframe. Unfortunately we seized thre 4108 before we realized what the problem was. but as they were under guarantee we got them replaced but its worth checking the color of your oil. the darker it is the worse it is. if its clear then its fine, Good luck and hope you get it running soon.
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Old 17-11-2012, 19:24   #11
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

P.S. Re bleeding the fuel lines if you can sort out the slow turnover on start then you only need to crack open the last injector connector and then spin the engine until it fires then close the connection, you might need todo it a couple of times but the air/fuel should bleed through to this last injector with no problem. saves a heck of a lot of doing each injector
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Old 17-11-2012, 19:32   #12
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

Worked on a particularly pesky Perkins recently. Used a fuel tank hose and bulb to bleed the engine. I have used WD40 in the past and tried the trick with the Perkins but it wouldn't fire. A fellow mechanic and old farm boy said the best thing he has found to start recalcitrant diesels is a Silicon spray. Not as volatile as ether and more than WD40. Don't know what the propellant may be. So we borrowed his can of Silicone spray and the Perkins started right up. I'll leave it to others here to elaborate on the superiority of Silicon Spray and why it is so.
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Old 17-11-2012, 19:46   #13
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

Quote:
If you are doing a lot of cranking without starting the engine, did you shut off the cooling water thru-hull valve? If not, your "slow" starter could be due to water in the cylinders which has backed up from the exhaust!

the 4108 needs to be bled first at the racor, then at the CAV filter (crack the bolt which secures the fuel line to the IP) then at the IP. Once that is done so that you see no bubbles (we are taking about maybe 400 strokes on the little finger lever on the lift pump) then it is time to crack the injectors, give full throttle, close the thru-hull, and crank the engine. After 20 seconds, tighten the injectors one-by-one. If its running, don't forget to open the thru-hull.
^^+1^^ This. On my Perkins 4.236 I just need to crack the lines at two of the injectors and the engine usually fires right up as long as I have followed the above procedure.
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Old 17-11-2012, 20:27   #14
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

On my diesel there is no one line shorter than the other from the fuel injector pump. they are all equal length.

Definitely on the close the water intake while cranking. Have flooded an engine that way too. Dang!!

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Old 18-11-2012, 03:55   #15
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Re: Another Bleeding Dilemna 4.108

I disconnected the hose to the mixing elbow and shut thru hull.
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