Am I totally Screwed?

[Outwest34au]

Sometimes in good faith people give a bloke a go either because of word of mouth or other.........

Originally Posted by bobconnie

My first suggestion is to stop useing the guys who avertize on the boards in your marina with hand made signs!! and get ahold of a REAL Diesel Mechanic!! Anyone who would use vice grips to work on Injector Pump is a Idiot!! The first thing any good workman would have done is clean the pump before working on it !!! Looks to me that the pump is fixable by a competant person or company!! Maybe it's time to spend a Little money to save a bunch later on !! Just sayin, ya get what ya pay for !!

And things don't go well and next thing......some yobbo reckons...

Originally Posted by mcarling

I would sue the mechanic in small claims court if the work was done in a jurisdiction that has them.

Anyways. You have all the correct advice at hand, select what works best for you and your machinery.
The truth of it is, the old CAVs are amongst the most basic agricultural pumps availlable and they are a good way to begin basic exploratory surgery on IP's. Even if you see an old massey ferguson or perkins tractor engine book in a 2nd hand shop grab it and it can explain a lot.

Hope it goes quick and easy for you.

PS, $500 for fully reco, wow, thatsa a bargain, esp when converted to AUD ;-)

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by hellosailor

The threads in the "block" look ok, the threads on the fitting look like they can be cleaned up. I'd vote with the folks saying take it to a machine shop or a diesel shop where they've had plenty of experience saving threads and let them do it so it gets done right the first, ergh, second, time.

Your alleged mechanic had no excuse to use a vicegrip just because he didn't have the right style wrench on hand. It isn't as if you were in danger of sinking if he stepped off the boat to grab the right tool.

He had all the tools he needed. What he didn't have was clearance, so instead of removing things to get clearance, he used vice grips. Not cool. I wasn't there when he did it, or I would have stopped him.

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by Cheechako

You need to fix the leak. A drip every second is pretty fast really. Might as well remove it and have it rebuilt or find an exchange if that's possible on that engine. If rebuilding, give them a "heads up" that the threads need repaired sucessfully before they rebuild. Or have that done by a good millwright.

The drip was every second BEFORE he tried to tighten them. Afterwards, it was pouring out in a steady stream.

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by sww914

I got a rebuilt Cav pump from Wilmington, Ca the day after they received my pump as an exchange. It was around $600.00. swdieselinc.com Your pump is not worthless as a core yet but it may need a rebuild and the leak may be an indicator.
Ask S&W who's a decent mechanic that comes to MDR, your old guy will just cost you more money.
No affiliation, just happy.

I thought if you get a new pump, the timing has to be set up again and that means taking the motor apart to do it, and my understanding is that the way my motor sits (backwards), it will be near impossible without removing it. Is that incorrect?

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Sorry guys but teflon is a bad idea!
First, you don't want to get any of that teflon into the fuel line or your screwed again.
Second these are banjo (compression) fittings not tapered pipe. There is no sealing in the 'straight' threads, only at the washer.

Tapered threads are compression threads and need the teflon to tighten w/o galling, and to take up any differences in the surfaces. And even at that I prefer Rectorseal #5 except for brass and SS fittings. And SS even has its own series of tape.

I read about a guy who had to remove and replace his rebuilt pump several times until the shop finally tested it on a bench and found a tiny particle of metal that needed a magnifying glass to find. It was in the top valve or something, so ran perfectly on the bench, but would not stop and caused other issues when installed on the engine. That doesn't sound good.

[olaf hart]

So he screwed you the wrong way?

Gotta say, my experience is to pay the best bloke whatever he charges, usually the cheapest way to get the job done properly.

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by ulpilot45

Hi fellow boater sorry to see the mess that was left for you to fix but the good news is the hyd head is made of hardend steel you cant strip the threads they sometimes chip but not normaly the banjo fitting is soft the part # is 7123-501 for the fitting you showed remove the pump and take it to a auth service dealer for delphi pumps it can be fixed there are torque specs for all bolts and fitting on pump the dealer can give them to you or you can pm me and I will. I own advanced diesel systems a fuel injection rebuilding center for all makes in montague mi good luck

Well that sounds promising, although I have to say, the threads inside the pump don't feel very deep, and the threads on the banjo bolt look fine, at least the ones that fit into that hole. The ones that the fuel line screws onto are definitely boinked. There is enough thread that the fitting will screw in, but even when bottomed out, you can wiggle the bolt up, down and side to side. A fair bit of play that you can feel and see easily. Is that normal? Thanks for your help btw. That goes for all of you.

[Outwest34au]

You sound like someone who will definitely learn from this experience as oppossed to someone looking for the qik forum easy cheap fix. That is a great thing.
May I suggest that whatever route you go that you get a spare bag of basic o-rings and copper washers from the diesel shop that you can carry with you. If you need a certain type of spanner specifically for the pump, eg crowsfoot or thin head 7/16 r/o then buy them and call them special tools. They will save you grief later.

Also, copper washers can be annealed and re-used, Ive had to do it before, Im sure we all have. This can get you out of trouble in a pinch. Consider it a less than ideal fix tho.

[Outwest34au]

Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil

I read about a guy who had to remove and replace his rebuilt pump several times until the shop finally tested it on a bench and found a tiny particle of metal that needed a magnifying glass to find. That doesn't sound good.

A good diesel shop works in uber clinical pump rebuild rooms. They wouldn't miss that, but sometimes a thread may swarf off when a fitting is tightened.
I think all the pump rooms I have seen are cleaner than the hospital theatres I have been in, just smell a bit different lol.

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by bobconnie

My first suggestion is to stop useing the guys who avertize on the boards in your marina with hand made signs!! and get ahold of a REAL Diesel Mechanic!! Anyone who would use vice grips to work on Injector Pump is a Idiot!! The first thing any good workman would have done is clean the pump before working on it !!! Looks to me that the pump is fixable by a competant person or company!! Maybe it's time to spend a Little money to save a bunch later on !! Just sayin, ya get what ya pay for !!

This guy isn't cheap. He replaced my V-Drive and packing gland and changed the fluids and stuff and all was good. Why he failed so bad this time I'm not sure. He brought his daughter with him the last time, and I found a page of her homework on the floor of the boat when I went back, so he might have been frustrated or rushed because she gets quite bored and constantly asks him when he'll be done. No excuse, but I like the guy and have had good luck in the past. It's too bad, because this was obviously bad work this time.

I'm sure his heart was in the right place (trying to save me some cash if possible) but it didn't work out. Change washers and then see what's next.

Also, when I was there the first time, I asked several times about cleaning the pump off better and mentioned about putting powder on it (I read that somewhere) to see where the leak came from. He refused and was 100% positive (at least in his mind) that it was from the banjo bolts.

[Boracay]

I'd like to speak up for the idea of doing the work yourself.

Sure, cash might be short, it's real scary to start pulling apart a diesel engine, it can take a long time and in the end you might need a new engine but at some stage you've got to take responsibility.

I learnt this the hard way but I'm sure there are many on this forum who've done the same.

Even after this problem is fixed you're still going to have an old engine in suspect condition. Are you going to call a mechanic every time you have a problem?

My mechanic is lazy, irresponsible, makes stupid mistakes, does shoddy work and fools round with my wife but he's always there when I need him, knows what the manual looks like, has every tool available at Supercheap Auto and he works real cheap.

And my engine works.

[SS Little-Devil]

Thanks all. I will get this figured out based on all the help here. I really appreciate everyone's input. Definitely going to start by buying new bolts if available, new washers, new bleed screws, then put it back together and clean the pump well, then sprinkle talc powder on the pump and look for leaks. Hopefully there is enough thread to allow the bolt to crush the washers, but if necessary, chase tap the threads as advised. If that doesn't work, pull the pump and bring in for a rebuild.

[delmarrey]

Threads on ports can be a little loose. I don't know what size it is but there are a gazillion of the things. I use to machine the things in both aircraft, hydraulic and valve parts. See this link>>> SAE Port Contour Cutters on Form Relief Tool Co. Clicking on the tool will give you the size/specs.

Maybe someone has a drawing or the actual manual/part that one can tell. But anyway, what I can see in your picture is not bad.

[SS Little-Devil]

You guys made me feel a lot better today. I was ready to take a long walk off a short plank yesterday. My boat has been down since last June while doing a variety of work and adding new electronics. I only bought it in April. This was the last step to getting it all working right and being ready to cruise. I thought it was going to be simple. Perhaps I needed this last lesson so I was better prepared for things that happen while out on the water. I replaced so much on the boat already, and have spares for most things - belts, hoses, pumps, gasket kits, alternator, etc., etc. When I sell this boat, someone will get a real bargain.

As for the motor, outside of this leak, it always ran great and purred like a kitten. Started easy and excellent, great compression, etc. Hopefully nothing changes as a result of mucking with this pump. One thing I am gonna get that I don't have, is a spare lift pump.

[SS Little-Devil]

Originally Posted by delmarrey

Threads on ports can be a little loose. I don't know what size it is but there are a gazillion of the things. I use to machine the things in both aircraft, hydraulic and valve parts. See this link>>> SAE Port Contour Cutters on Form Relief Tool Co. Clicking on the tool will give you the size/specs.

Maybe someone has a drawing or the actual manual/part that one can tell. But anyway, what I can see in your picture is not bad.

I have the full technical manual on the motor including the injection pump. It's a CAV model 3246F857. Gonna head to a diesel shop on Monday and get the parts I need and then go from there.