Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 12-01-2013, 14:43   #61
Moderator
 
HappyMdRSailor's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2008
Location: North Mississippi
Boat: 48 Wauquiez Pilot Saloon-C22 Chrysler Sunpiper- 19 Potter-Preparing to cruise w/my girl
Posts: 5,980
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

SS L-D....

Bet you are OK with a little play with the banjo fasteners to the body... Obviously it is the crush washers that provide the seal.... As long as you can get a snug resistance from your installation tool.... If you successfully replace and start... clean the whole body off with brake-carb-parts-cleaner or acetone.... Get the darn thing dry on the outside... ready an inspection mirror... bright flashlight and a cleaner soaked rag... have somebody start her while you keep watch... My bet is still on the cover gasket... looked like a banjo on mine... wasn't...

Finally....

I have no idea why you would need to disassemble an engine to time a pump if you went the R&R route....
__________________

__________________
In the harsh marine environment, something is always in need of repair...

Mai Tai's fix everything...
HappyMdRSailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 14:45   #62
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
I have the full technical manual on the motor including the injection pump.
If that gives you the fitting size, you'll know what tap to use. Or if you have the know how, you can just measure the bore and thread pitch to get the proper tap, that's if you want to go this route.

A good mechanic would have had the proper tools to get the thing off. Personally I must have $10k in hand tools not counting the roll-a-ways to put them in. And I'm retired.
__________________

__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 14:55   #63
Moderator
 
Boracay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Pelican Bay, Great Sandy National Park
Boat: Steel Roberts Offshore 44
Posts: 5,175
Images: 18
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Rather than a spare lift pump I'd suggest an electric auxiliary pump.

I got a Walbro and of course since I put in in the "problem" has never come back but it's nice to heat the occasional tick when the engine is running.

Makes bleeding real easy!
__________________
Rust never sleeps
Boracay Blog.
Boracay is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:11   #64
Senior Cruiser
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

It sounds like you are on the right path. You mentioned, that you were under the understanding that if you remove the injection pump you may have to remove the engine or something like that. This is not correct. Usally there is a procedure to get the engine to top dead center on number one cylinder by lining up 2 or 3 timing marks on the fly wheel, and injector pump. then taking the pump off. The overhaul manual will give you steps needed to insure that you do it correctly. Then when you get the pump back from servicing, it will be locked into this same position with a set screw. Then after it is reinstalled, you simply remove the set screw and fire it up after getting all the air out. It isn't that hard to do if you have the overhaul manual and a few good tools.

Also, the cooper washers can sometimes be reused successfully. If they aren't galled or indented to bad, get a piece of glass and 400 grit wet dry sand paper. Using oil as lubricant, sand the washer on top of the glass/sandpaper until it is perfectly smooth and flat. It takes a little while but if you are careful you can reuse the old ones.
__________________
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:12   #65
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
I'm sure his heart was in the right place (trying to save me some cash if possible) but it didn't work out. Change washers and then see what's next.
As they said in Forrest Gump, sh!t happens. If you and other customers have been happy and still have faith in the guy, and he has acknowledged his errors in the current issue, it might be worth having a frank discussion with him about it, and seeing where you can go from there. A satisfactory outcome might be that he doesn't charge for the botched work, and you both agree on a forward plan for making the fix. Including no simultaneous daycare, and no vicegrips.

You could still possibly emerge from this with the problem fixed at reasonable cost, AND a better relationship with a good mechanic.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:15   #66
Registered User

Join Date: May 2011
Location: Toronto
Boat: Sandpiper 565
Posts: 2,943
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rocketman View Post
the copper washers can sometimes be reused successfully. If they aren't galled or indented to bad, get a piece of glass and 400 grit wet dry sand paper. Using oil as lubricant, sand the washer on top of the glass/sandpaper until it is perfectly smooth and flat. It takes a little while but if you are careful you can reuse the old ones.
Copper washers are so cheap that it's hard to justify reusing old ones except in emergencies. My 2 cents.
__________________
Lake-Effect is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:17   #67
Senior Cruiser
 
Rocketman's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Naples, FL
Boat: Beneteau Oceanis 400
Posts: 668
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lake-Effect View Post
Copper washers are so cheap that it's hard to justify reusing old ones except in emergencies. My 2 cents.
While this is true, when you are out of them, or need one or two to complete the job, then salvaging an old one is way better then ordering new, or driving accross town for a 5 cent washer.
__________________
Rocketman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:23   #68
Registered User
 
ulpilot45's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montague mi
Boat: gulfstar sloop 44ft
Posts: 77
You don't want to reuse any high pressure washers they are crush washers the distance the banjo bolt gos into the injection pump is critical if the bolt bottoms in the hyd head the pump will size costing major expensive repair washer are cheap I will send them to anyone at cost so they don't reuse them
__________________
ulpilot45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:27   #69
Registered User
 
ulpilot45's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montague mi
Boat: gulfstar sloop 44ft
Posts: 77
You don't want to reuse any high pressure washers .the distance the bolt goes in to the hyd head is critical if the bolt bottoms in the head the pump will lock up costing you major money
__________________
ulpilot45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:30   #70
Senior Cruiser
 
SkiprJohn's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2006
Location: Kea'au, Big Island, Hawaii
Boat: Cascade, Sloop, 42 - "Casual"
Posts: 14,192
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
Thanks all. I will get this figured out based on all the help here. I really appreciate everyone's input. Definitely going to start by buying new bolts if available, new washers, new bleed screws, then put it back together and clean the pump well, then sprinkle talc powder on the pump and look for leaks. Hopefully there is enough thread to allow the bolt to crush the washers, but if necessary, chase tap the threads as advised. If that doesn't work, pull the pump and bring in for a rebuild.
This is a good plan of attack. Let us know how it turns out. If you can get it back down to a couple drips now and then you'll be in good shape.

Did you have to bleed the fuel system to get it to run at any time?

kind regards,
__________________
John
SkiprJohn is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 15:47   #71
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: Vancouver, BC
Boat: Alberg 30
Posts: 344
Quote:
Originally Posted by SS Little-Devil View Post
I can't see how a tap would solve it, since it would make the hole larger, no? Plus, doesn't that create a risk of getting bits of metal filings into the pump? I think I'll just finish take the pump off myself. From what I understand now, all I needed was some washers and could have fixed it without removing it, but now I'm facing several hundred and possibly thousands of dollars to fix.
Trick I picked up from a brilliant mechanic. Somebody had 'fixed' a bolt securing something by drilling deeper, turning a blind hole into a through hole. then destroying the threads. The way he kept fragments out of the block was to keep the tap thickly coated in heavy grease, clean every few turns
__________________
jgbrown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 17:30   #72
Senior Cruiser
 
DeepFrz's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Winnipeg
Boat: None at this time
Posts: 7,930
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

You guys touting copper washers seem to have missed or ignored the fact that this engine uses aluminum crush washers that are one time use only.
__________________
DeepFrz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 17:49   #73
Senior Cruiser
 
delmarrey's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Now in Blaine, WA
Boat: Modified Choate 40
Posts: 10,702
Images: 122
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by DeepFrz View Post
You guys touting copper washers seem to have missed or ignored the fact that this engine uses aluminum crush washers that are one time use only.
Aluminum maybe a (cheaper) stock item but copper seals better, and should not be used more then one time either. Ideally gold or silver would be best but that's a bit over expensive.
__________________
Faithful are the Wounds of a Friend, but the Kisses of the Enemy are Deceitful! ........
A nation of sheep breeds a government of wolves!

Unprepared boaters, end up as floatsum!.......
delmarrey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-01-2013, 17:57   #74
Registered User
 
ulpilot45's Avatar

Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Montague mi
Boat: gulfstar sloop 44ft
Posts: 77
A tap does not make the hole bigger it just cleans the threads in this case the tap size should be 3/8 24 to clean threads but would expect that all you need is a new banjo and clean hole with carb cleaner new washers and correct torque in fitings
__________________
ulpilot45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 13-01-2013, 14:45   #75
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Sep 2010
Posts: 357
Send a message via Skype™ to SS Little-Devil
Re: Am I totally Screwed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by SkiprJohn View Post
Did you have to bleed the fuel system to get it to run at any time?
No I have never needed to bleed the fuel system. The motor always ran fantastic, even with the drip and it pouring out. No noticeable difference in idle or anything. At least not that I noticed. I didn't check the gauge, but I have a good ear for RPMs and it sounded normal.
__________________

__________________
SS Little-Devil is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off




Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:58.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.