Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 15-02-2015, 11:25   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 71
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

We have a Catalina 27. Fulled loaded about 8000 pounds. Newish Nissan 9.9 on an adjustable mount off the stern. We used it extensively in the Bahamas for many months. Some days we motored a LONG way (e.g., 40 miles a day). Here's what we learned:

Advantages of stern mounted outboard:
  • more storage below with the inboard engine gone (that's important on a small boat).
  • Easy to get at it for maintenance, repair, change oil filter, etc. easy easy to work on.
  • Easy to replace if necessary - just bolt on a new motor and you're good to go in 15 minutes.
  • Electric start was wonderful.
  • 6 amp charging was wonderful.
  • VERY minimal fuel consumption (this was newish Nissan 4 stroke).
  • VERY reliable - never missed a beat.
  • Easy to untangle prop. Once, we caught a large plastic bag (in the ICW in Florida). Rather than have to dive in yucky water, we just tiled up the motor and untangled. Easy!
  • Extremely quiet. That motor just purred back there. Much quieter down below than oninboard diesel that we have now.
  • No drag. Just lift up the mount, or tilt it up and it's 100% out of the water.
Disadvantages - things we did NOT like.
  • Sometimes the prop would come out of the water (in larger waves) and we'd lose headway and steerage. Granted we weren't in any really big waves or really heavy weather. We picked our passages carefully.
  • With the motor mounted midline on stern, no way to use davits.
  • I could see where it could be damaged or even "fall off" if subjected to problems (e.g., backing into dock, extreme motion, etc). It IS somewhat exposed hanging back there.
  • Only 6 amp charging.
  • Somewhat difficult with fine navigating. 95% of the time it was fine., we just locked it straight forward and reached over the back to shift gears and adjust speed. BUT, the previous posters talked about difficulty doing everything at once and steering. Only occasionally did we need more hands than we had. Again,not a big problem,but I could see where that is possible though.

Having said all of that, our new boat (Catalina 320) has an inboard Yanmar. I do like that BETTER! it seems more solid and dependable and more "real".

I don't think that you are either cheap or stupid. Just realize the limitations and plan accordingly. If you can accept those limitations, then go!
__________________

__________________
bratzcpa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 11:31   #17
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,057
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogiyo42 View Post
I recently bought a Pearson 323 without an inboard engine. I have read extensively about the drawbacks of having an outboard engine on a sailboat. However, money is tight and I cannot afford the $6k-$10k to install an inboard engine.

I am in Palm Beach trying to prep my boat for an open ended (probably a year) sail around the Caribbean. I am considering buying a new(ish) 9.9 hp outboard to mount on the transom. I understand that this makes things more difficult without having an engine to charge my batteries.

My idea is to use the outboard only to navigate in and out of marinas. Time is not an issue so I don't think I need to be concerned about beating into the wind for extensive periods of time.

I am considering wind and solar to supply my meager battery requirements. I really only need power for running lights, vhf, charging electronics (phone, handheld vhf, etc.) I don't have a refrigerator, windlass, autopilot, or any other power suckers.

Am I being cheap and/or stupid? Any thoughts, advice or musings are appreciated. Thanks.
One thing to keep in mind with the outboard, you won't have prop wash over the rudder. The ability to steer with the OB is essential.
__________________

__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 12:45   #18
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Charleston SC
Boat: 1979 Pearson 323
Posts: 72
Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

We have a 323 and a 29hp inboard. We're in the Exumas right now. It'll push us about 5.5kts in flat water at 2500rpms. If I had to re-power I'd probably stick with the inboard, unless I was just to use it as a day sailor, in which case an outboard would work fine for us. We use the motor a good bit, so if we were to sit and wait for perfect weather maybe an outboard would work better for us.
__________________
cofc is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 13:06   #19
Registered User
 
Cadence's Avatar

Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: SC
Boat: None,build the one shown of glass, had many from 6' to 48'.
Posts: 6,057
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yogiyo42 View Post
I recently bought a Pearson 323 without an inboard engine. I have read extensively about the drawbacks of having an outboard engine on a sailboat. However, money is tight and I cannot afford the $6k-$10k to install an inboard engine.

I am in Palm Beach trying to prep my boat for an open ended (probably a year) sail around the Caribbean. I am considering buying a new(ish) 9.9 hp outboard to mount on the transom. I understand that this makes things more difficult without having an engine to charge my batteries.

My idea is to use the outboard only to navigate in and out of marinas. Time is not an issue so I don't think I need to be concerned about beating into the wind for extensive periods of time.

I am considering wind and solar to supply my meager battery requirements. I really only need power for running lights, vhf, charging electronics (phone, handheld vhf, etc.) I don't have a refrigerator, windlass, autopilot, or any other power suckers.

Am I being cheap and/or stupid? Any thoughts, advice or musings are appreciated. Thanks.
I had put in my 2 cents on steerage with an OB. I might suggest you look at more than 9.9. A 15 is about the same engine and weight. You will probably need one with a long lower unit. Honda 15 with a 28" leg, with T&T is highly recommended. The only problem it is so quiet you need to check it is running, an hour meter is cheap and easily wired. It also have a sizable alternator. I have not dog in the fight, so take it for what it is or isn't worth.
__________________
Cadence is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 16:36   #20
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 37
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

I don't have much to add in light of all these really experienced sailors. Years ago, I lived on my Rawson 30 for 2 years in the harbor here in Alaska. Bought the boat planning to rebuild the engine but never did. Had a Suzuki 6 hp OB long shaft that moved the boat along find. I sailed it mostly so the only time I used the 6 hp was docking in the harbor. Setup like others have discussed. I also used it for my cheap $200 14 ft lake aluminum boat that was scary at times in ocean waves. Life was so simple back then, no mortgage, no car, no more 4th wife, fished for salmon, shrimp netted, free fish from local commercial fishermen and made good money at my job. Anyway ... I learned to dock it, never hit anything. You have to scramble for lines but if you set them up right, it can be done. I was sitting right there holding the rudder stick so it wasn't difficult to adjust the speed or put it in reverse. Slow and easy but enough speed to control it. Higher winds, I'd hang out until someone was available to help with the lines and split a six pack. It seemed the wind was blowing right for my slip most of the time. I learned to sail on a 16 foot Hobie Cat and I think that helped me. I'd bring it into tight docking and release the sail in the nick of time and scramble.
I'd think you'd do ok with you're planned setup. Get a reliable running motor so it doesn't cut out on you at a critical point. And know the anticipated weather. Weather is everything here in AK. I'd do what you're planning in a minute if I didn't have a new rebuilt sitting in my 46 footer. 2-4 years until retirement. Ah-h-h-h, that's what gets me up and to work. Paying off the Hydrovane system now.
__________________
Formosa46AK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 16:49   #21
Moderator Emeritus
 
Ex-Calif's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: May 2007
Location: Singapore
Boat: Maxi 77 - Relax Lah!
Posts: 11,514
Images: 4
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Great post and I think you nailed the advantages and disadvantages.

When our diesel failed I put a 5hp on the back - I was going to repurpose it for a dink when I got the diesel fixed.. Even with our relatively light boat (~2500kg) I really felt underpowered. At times coming out of the marina against 25kts wind and decent swell we were getting 1 knot over ground.

I just got a deal on a yamaha 15 - I'll let you know how it goes.

I also seriously vote for remote throttle, shift and electric start. Leaning over the transom to dock is a PITA.

The new motor has 80w of generating power as well but solar has been handling our power needs quite well.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bratzcpa View Post
We have a Catalina 27. Fulled loaded about 8000 pounds. Newish Nissan 9.9 on an adjustable mount off the stern. We used it extensively in the Bahamas for many months. Some days we motored a LONG way (e.g., 40 miles a day). Here's what we learned:

Advantages of stern mounted outboard:
  • more storage below with the inboard engine gone (that's important on a small boat).
  • Easy to get at it for maintenance, repair, change oil filter, etc. easy easy to work on.
  • Easy to replace if necessary - just bolt on a new motor and you're good to go in 15 minutes.
  • Electric start was wonderful.
  • 6 amp charging was wonderful.
  • VERY minimal fuel consumption (this was newish Nissan 4 stroke).
  • VERY reliable - never missed a beat.
  • Easy to untangle prop. Once, we caught a large plastic bag (in the ICW in Florida). Rather than have to dive in yucky water, we just tiled up the motor and untangled. Easy!
  • Extremely quiet. That motor just purred back there. Much quieter down below than oninboard diesel that we have now.
  • No drag. Just lift up the mount, or tilt it up and it's 100% out of the water.
Disadvantages - things we did NOT like.
  • Sometimes the prop would come out of the water (in larger waves) and we'd lose headway and steerage. Granted we weren't in any really big waves or really heavy weather. We picked our passages carefully.
  • With the motor mounted midline on stern, no way to use davits.
  • I could see where it could be damaged or even "fall off" if subjected to problems (e.g., backing into dock, extreme motion, etc). It IS somewhat exposed hanging back there.
  • Only 6 amp charging.
  • Somewhat difficult with fine navigating. 95% of the time it was fine., we just locked it straight forward and reached over the back to shift gears and adjust speed. BUT, the previous posters talked about difficulty doing everything at once and steering. Only occasionally did we need more hands than we had. Again,not a big problem,but I could see where that is possible though.

Having said all of that, our new boat (Catalina 320) has an inboard Yanmar. I do like that BETTER! it seems more solid and dependable and more "real".

I don't think that you are either cheap or stupid. Just realize the limitations and plan accordingly. If you can accept those limitations, then go!
__________________
Relax Lah! is For Sale <--- Click
Click--> Custom CF Google Search or CF Rules
You're gonna need a bigger boat... - Martin Brody
Ex-Calif is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 16:56   #22
Registered User
 
Steady Hand's Avatar

Join Date: Jul 2014
Location: Crewing All of 2017 Available Globally
Boat: OPB = Crewing in 2017
Posts: 4,851
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

The electric motor option mentioned sounds interesting for a boat this size.
__________________
Ahoy All Sailors! Need experienced crew for a passage or delivery in Atlantic, Pacific, Caribbean, Med, PNW, ICW, coastal or across an ocean anytime in 2017? I am available on 24hr notice. See my CF Profile "About Me" page for details. Happy to lend a hand!
Steady Hand is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 16:59   #23
Registered User

Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Port St. Joe, FL
Boat: Hunter 33
Posts: 53
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

I had several boats with outboards, the largest being a Catalina 27. Although I like my inboard Yanmar better, the outboard is certainly a viable option.
__________________
If life gives you limes make margaritas -- Jimmy Buffett
La Porte Rouge is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 17:21   #24
Freelance Delivery Skipper..
 
boatman61's Avatar

Community Sponsor
Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: UK/Portugal
Posts: 20,198
Images: 2
Send a message via Skype™ to boatman61
pirate Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Have owned a few boats with O/B's.. and fitted an 8hp to a Wauquiez 37 I had to deliver from Seville, Spain to Fig da Foz on the W coast of Portugal.. it pushed us the 50miles downriver to the sea then from Lisbon to Fig da Foz at an average speed of 4.5 kts 3/4 throttle...
2 comments.. get the vertical sliding bracket if transom and rudder permit.. and fit remotes its not that hard and cheap enough on Ebay..
and load her so she's lighter on the bow..
__________________


Born To Be Wild
boatman61 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 17:21   #25
Registered User

Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: North Carolina
Boat: Seaward 22
Posts: 691
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

I have an outboard on my Seaward 22 and it is fine. However, on a 32 I wouldn't do it.

The electric option is very interesting if you can use your existing shaft and stuffing box. Maybe get a few $$ for the dead diesel. Lose the diesel tank, engine, and you have a lot of space for batteries and electric engine. Buy a Honda 2000 genny and you are in business.
__________________
ohdrinkboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 17:27   #26
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Wherever the wind blows. Florida and Caribbean
Boat: Pearson 323
Posts: 6
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Wow. Cruisersforum comes through again. I love this site. Thanks for all the replies. This has been helpful.

I think I am going to buy a new model outboard with a high gear ratio (2.4 or above?), alternator, and remote. The transom is big so controlling the outboard while singlehanded using the tiller would be challenging to say the least.

Still researching my solar and wind options. Ice would be nice but I will have to make due.

Work to do but thanks to you guys I'm headed in a better direction.
__________________
Yogiyo42 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 19:31   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2015
Location: Wisconsin, USA
Boat: Yankee Dolphin 24
Posts: 2
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

Sounds like you're already sold on the outboard option, but +1 for the electric option. It's unconventional, but a nice compromise between the cost/features of an ICE.

There is a recent thread that discusses electric powered boats:
Using electric motors instead of Diesel on your cat

Quiet, clean, fantastic speed control, high torque, high power to weight. They can run thousands of hours with little to no maintenance. Regular replacement parts are cheap and small. And you can use the existing drive system with a shaft coupler or adapter.

Like ohdrinkboy said, throw a small genny in just in case and you have the best of both worlds.

In the use cases you described, it's a viable alternative. I'd definitely consider it before strapping an outboard on a boat designed for an inboard. Especially if you can get a working, used cart for a few hundred dollars. Just my $0.02

Cheers and good luck
__________________
curiousmonkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 20:10   #28
Registered User
 
Yeti's Avatar

Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: San Diego
Boat: Cascade 36
Posts: 246
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/bpo/4876840871.html
20hp, rebuilt, $2400. Might be a little underpowered for your boat.

http://spacecoast.craigslist.org/bpo/4865123692.html
Westerbeke 50, probably too much for your boat but still a possibly tolerable price at $2500

http://treasure.craigslist.org/boa/4831885320.html
Westerbeke 38 $1000, needs a rebuild, spend another $2000 do it yourself, then know it inside and out.

I've also seen a 4108 listed for $3500.

All of these can be had and installed for under $5k if you're willing to do the work yourself.





Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
Yeti is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 21:00   #29
Registered User
 
Compactorguy's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Long Beach, Ca
Boat: Morgan 27
Posts: 58
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

I have a Honda 9.9 on my Morgan 27 installed by previous owner who removed the Atomic 4 and glassed over shaft through hull. An Extra long shaft motor would be better to keep prop in water in heavy seas but being a sailboat the motor is a convenience. I have a Honda generator to charge batteries or use instead of invertor. My Morgan does not like to go in reverse with the tiller though I have to use the motors tiller in tight spots
__________________
Compactorguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 15-02-2015, 22:11   #30
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Alert Bay, Vancouver Island
Boat: 35ft classic ketch/yawl.
Posts: 931
Images: 4
Send a message via Skype™ to roland stockham
Re: Am I being cheap and/or stupid?

I have sailed extensively with outboard engine (and no engine). up to 20 ft on a traditional hull they work fine abouve that or on any boat with a broad beam you will get problems of it lifting out in any significant sea. Your boat looks like it will be in that category. If you have no problems with what may be effectively an engine-less boat beyond the harbor wall in anything but a flat calm then it will be fine. Would put remote controls on though. One big plus is you can turn it sideways and it works like a stern thruster, wonderful maneuverability!
__________________

__________________
roland stockham is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
cheap

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Want To Buy: Need a Cheap, Cheap, Cheap Boat . . . Did I Mention Cheap ? TheScarab Classifieds Archive 52 05-02-2012 13:29
Stupid Is as Stupid Does smcauley440 The Sailor's Confessional 13 18-03-2011 03:52
Stupid, Stupid Laws Factor Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 24 28-04-2010 21:51
A REALLY Stupid Thing Done While Doing a Stupid Thing Dick Pluta The Sailor's Confessional 31 28-04-2010 19:00



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 21:03.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.