Agip Super Diesel Multigrade for Yanmar?

[Kenomac]

I started a thread last summer regarding engine oils for Yanmar Turbo diesels, and have been using Shell oil for the past two oil changes. But I came across this Agip Super Diesel Multigrade SAE 15W-40 in the store today and was wondering if it will do just as good a job? It's half the price of the Shell oil which I'll picture in the next post.

Your thoughts?

Thanks

Ken

[Kenomac]

Heres the Shell oil product that's currently lubricating the Yanmar Turdo and Westerbeke generator. I'm in Italy, so I can't always obtain what's on the shelves in the USA or UK. The brands are different.

[DougR]

Both the Agip and Shell oils conform to SAE specification CF-4. According to a 2009 Yanmar (3jh/4jh)owners manual which I found on-line, the engine oil for these particular models needs to meet CF-4 requirements. You should check your owners manual for the oil requirements for your particular engine and compare it to the info on the oil container or the oil spec sheet which can be found online.

DougR

[Charlie]

Ken:

I think that the AGIP oil meets a spec for the new VW an MBenz turbos which I believe is much more stringent then the turbo for the yanmar. But I agree with Doug check the owner's manual for which specification is needed for your particular engine.

[Kenomac]

Thanks, I'll look into that.

Ken

[Dockhead]

API CF4 - looks good Ken. Avoid anything synthetic and don't deviate from the grade.

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[Kenomac]

OK, Wish I'd found this last year.

http://www.api.org/~/media/files/cer...glish_2013.pdf

Turns out I should stock up on the Agip which is perfect for the engine and return the supply of Shell which is for engines older than our Yanmar.

Here's the Yanmar recommendations from the official owners manual. Looks like it was written for idiots. Recommends API Class CD.

[a64pilot]

Oil and filters is a terrible place to save money, and I'd try to stay with one brand if possible, I know many will argue it makes no difference, but if possible I'd stay with the same oil.

Don't get hung up on the idiots part, CD is the minimum requirement.
May in fact be so old that it will be hard to find an oil that specifies it meets CD as most meet much more stringent standards.
However, many oils are now formulated to be kind to pollution control devices, and some of the additive packages of the old types of oil may make them better lubricants, but poison to Catalytic converters and the like.

So, sometimes newer isn't better, and often some turbo applications will even spec a straight grade oil, cause often a straight 30W will tolerate higher temps etc without breaking down. There is no free lunch and multi grades do in fact give up something to get that multi viscosity.

But, 99% of Marine Diesels are in fact pretty kind to oils and only very rarely are they high HP, highly stressed engines, even turbo ones.

I won't touch the avoid anything synthetic as I have a different opinion, but the absolute most important thing about Diesel engines and oil is, you can't change it too often, it's not fine wine, it does not improve with age

[Kenomac]

It is odd that the factory specs oil CD grade that was obsolete prior to the production date of the engine.

[Abgreenbank]

If your buying oil in Europe, ACEA specs are simple, remember our trusty yanmars are old technology and don't like the newer synthetic oils for cars with dpf/cats etc. In fact it's not that easy to buy a 15w40 semi or full synthetic oil.


http://www.oilspecifications.org/acea.php

Regards

Ab



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[a64pilot]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It is odd that the factory specs oil CD grade that was obsolete prior to the production date of the engine.

A little, maybe. But remember that is the Min. spec, maybe not the best, but minimum, many argue with a lot of truth that over spec oil is just a waste of money. I waste the money, but then I have never worn out an engine that I owned from the beginning either. I've owned cars until the car was essentially falling apart, but engine ran fine and consumed very little oil.
Except for really odd oils, I've never seen a Diesel oil not meet at least CD. There are some recycled oils sold out there, used oil is filtered, refined or something and resold, maybe that stuff doesn't meet CD, who knows?

I think by specing CD, they are essentially saying the engine is not hard on oil, that essentially any Diesel oil will get you through the warranty period.



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[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

It is odd that the factory specs oil CD grade that was obsolete prior to the production date of the engine.

It's not odd --

read up on it -- https://coxengineering.sharepoint.co...htengines.aspx

Your engine does not want the additives which increase TBN. So "higher" grade oil is harmful for it.

What it boils down to is that "higher"grade oil contains additives which are intended to deal with problems which cold running slow turning yacht engines do not have. The same additives which are good for high speed, hot running car diesels, are harmful to our engines.

You want CD if you can get it; otherwise CF4. Nothing else -- just like the Yanmar manual shows in its cartoon.

People who have classic cars (like me) know the same problem from there. Engines made before say 1960 need low additive pure mineral oil, which you can buy now only at great expense and blended specially for classic cars. Our boat engines are actually similar, and I actually considered using some of that stuff.

http://www.castrol.com/en_gb/united-...gine-oils.html

Our situation is not exactly the same since we don't have the cork seals etc., but many of the problems are similar.

[Kenomac]

The Shell oil I have on hand is rated SF/SG which seems to be recommended for engines pre 1993. Probably just fine for my low revving engine, but I'll stock up on some of the Agip CH-4 today.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

. .

I think by specing CD, they are essentially saying the engine is not hard on oil, that essentially any Diesel oil will get you through the warranty period.

If what you're saying is -- Yanmar don't care how long the engine lasts, as long as it gets through the warranty period -- why would they take that approach? On the contrary, they will be interested in the engine lasting as long as possible, to enhance the reputation of the company and sell more motors. They don't pay for the oil, so why would they recommend an oil which would give their customers less life?


In fact the whole problem here is the idea that oil grades are a one-dimensional line of "better" and "worse". They are not like that. Different oil grades are formulated for different types of engines and different usage patterns, and they are not "better" or "worse" for all engines.

Giving synthetic oil, or oil rated for 5000RPM BMW turbo-diesels, to a yacht engine is like giving crepe suzettes to a dog. The theory of "nothing too good for my baby!" is not the way to approach this. Dogs need dog food, not crepes suzette (in fact I think sugar can kill them).

[Pyxis156]

Originally Posted by Kenomac

The Shell oil I have on hand is rated SF/SG which seems to be recommended for engines pre 1993. Probably just fine for my low revving engine, but I'll stock up on some of the Agip CH-4 today.

Ken, note that oils rated with an "S" as the first letter are for spark (i.e., gas) engines and not suitable for diesels. You should use oils with ratings that start with "C" for compression (i.e., diesel) engines. Hopefully that was a typo when you said your on-hand oil is SF/SG.