Cruisers Forum
 


Reply
  This discussion is proudly sponsored by:
Please support our sponsors and let them know you heard about their products on Cruisers Forums. Advertise Here
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 16-12-2017, 23:39   #1
Registered User

Join Date: Sep 2017
Boat: Deerfoot 62 #1
Posts: 11
adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

hey guys we are thinking of adding a 50 gallon permanent below decks gasoline tank to our sailboat. we will be doing long exploration voyages and are planning to be away from fuel for a while. we are looking at a Moeller Marine 50 gallon below decks tank with a filler and vent that would lead above decks.

what are your thoughts?

it will be in a compartment that is behind a water tight bulkhead and away from the living quarters.
Enginerd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 00:11   #2
Moderator
 
Pete7's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Solent, England
Boat: Moody 31
Posts: 18,398
Images: 22
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

You're ex Navy so you will know the risks, but I have to ask why so much petrol? Diesel or Kero I can understand but petrol?

Be interesting to know if petrol vapour sets off a gas alarm.

Pete
Pete7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 01:22   #3
Senior Cruiser
 
newhaul's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: puget sound washington
Boat: 1968 Islander bahama 24 hull 182, 1963 columbia 29 defender. hull # 60
Posts: 12,113
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Sounds like a gasoline outboard is your main engine . If you have an atomic you should already have plenty of fuel capacity. 50 gallons is a lot of weight to add especially if not designed to be there. But it should be doable just need to know what boat you have. Also remember to add the explosion proof bilge blower.
__________________
Non illigitamus carborundum
newhaul is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 01:42   #4
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,559
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Sounds like dinghy fuel to me.

I've had gasoline on several cruising cats. I've also working in and designed refineries. Fortunately, they are able to hold gasoline on the bridge deck, in fuel holds that are gas tight, ventilated out the bottom, and contain no electrical equipment. On a boat, as a minimum, I'd want to make certain the bulkhead was not just liquid tight but also gas tight. That means no penetrations clear to the deck. Second, the compartment must be ventilated from the bottom and top. Finally, no electrical connections, machinery, or lighting, or even the backs of deck lights. Nothing other then the tanks sending unit.

According to the National Electrical code for shore installations, as soon as you put a gasoline tank in a closed space, the entire space, in this case including the hull up to the deck, is a classified space that requires explosion proof equipment. For example, if you put a 50 gallon tank in a dike behind your shop, the space inside the dike, up to the lip of the dike and within 10 feet of the tank, is classified. And of course, if the tanks is in a building, the vent must go through the roof. All in all, this is a tough standard to meet in a boat.

And I've seen the explosions, in refineries and one at the fuel dock.

It can be done, but you need to take it very, very seriously. Buy a copy of the relevant codes, remembering that these codes are not written by the government, they are written by the industries to reduce their losses. I've served on code committees.

A smaller tank, that could be above the water line in dedicated sub compartment, like a propane locker, is a better bet. Think propane locker; they have much in common.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 02:30   #5
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 11,002
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Check out the rules for gas power-boat installations and follow those and you should be fine just make sure to continue to follow the rules and maintain it properly.

It is a good idea to consider the weight distribution also.

If it's a catamaran, try to put it on the bridge deck where you can bottom vent it.
valhalla360 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 03:11   #6
Marine Service Provider

Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Little Compton, RI
Boat: Cape George 31
Posts: 2,962
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Unless it has internal baffles, I'd be really afraid of putting a tank that big belowdecks (or anywhere) on a sailboat. A half-empty 20-gal water tank did some serious shaking of a 27-foot sailboat I was on during a lumpy night at sea. I can only imagine what a half-full 50-gal tank will do in a seaway.
__________________
Ben
zartmancruising.com
Benz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 03:48   #7
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2015
Location: Sozopol
Boat: Riva 48
Posts: 1,375
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

There are many sailboats with gas powered inboard engines and internal gas tanks. Have a look at gas tank installations of Atomic 4 powered sailboats. It's not rocket science but you have to consider all contingencies.
Pizzazz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 04:43   #8
Senior Cruiser
 
GordMay's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Thunder Bay, Ontario - 48-29N x 89-20W
Boat: (Cruiser Living On Dirt)
Posts: 49,083
Images: 241
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

ABYC H-24 / 46CFR 182.455c GASOLINE FUEL SYSTEMS (see 24.10 etc) ➥ https://law.resource.org/pub/us/cfr/....H-24.1993.pdf
__________________
Gord May
"If you didn't have the time or money to do it right in the first place, when will you get the time/$ to fix it?"



GordMay is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 07:06   #9
Registered User
 
Three Sisters's Avatar

Join Date: Feb 2016
Location: USA
Posts: 489
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Enginerd View Post
hey guys we are thinking of adding a 50 gallon permanent below decks gasoline tank to our sailboat. we will be doing long exploration voyages and are planning to be away from fuel for a while. we are looking at a Moeller Marine 50 gallon below decks tank with a filler and vent that would lead above decks.

what are your thoughts?

it will be in a compartment that is behind a water tight bulkhead and away from the living quarters.
Thoughts ? Only if fume detection was incorporated. Another thought would be weight distribution.


Click image for larger version

Name:	fumes.jpg
Views:	174
Size:	64.0 KB
ID:	160654
Three Sisters is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 07:29   #10
Registered User
 
neworleansrich's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 117
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

We do extended out island cruising and also wanted to get rid of the jerry-jug gasoline issue on our trawler.

We thought about having a below deck tank fabricated, but could not decide on what type of pump arrangement we wanted.

Our solution was to purchase a roto-molded 50 gallon gasoline tank and mount it on deck by lashing it to the deck stanchions. We use a bronze pipe nipple and cap for the fill and supply fuel directly to the dinks with a gravity siphon hose made of 3/8in vinyl hose with a ball valve shut off. The final part was a sunbrella cover for the tank.

This tank has a much smaller footprint than the multiple jugs we previously carried. Fueling the dink is easier.
neworleansrich is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 07:47   #11
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Posts: 2,007
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by thinwater View Post
All in all, this is a tough standard to meet in a boat.
ThinWater,

You DO realize that there are a huge number of gasoline powered boats, right? I would guess there are actually more of them than diesel powered.

USCG and ABYC have clear standards for what's needed. Follow the rules, take care of things and it's fine.

If things go wrong, they go very wrong... I have seen a boat blow up. But if care is taken it's safe.
billknny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 08:38   #12
Registered User

Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 87
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Lots of good comments and clearly you are not going to be the first boat to do this safely.

I am going to assume the gasoline is for outboard use.

We have done a fair bit of remote sailing and the first observation is that for both outboard and diesel it was not possible to bring the boat alongside a fuel dock very often. Everything came aboard in jerry jugs.

I don't like double handling of fuel.

I would be tempted to have some neat stainless brackets fabricated to hold 4 or 6 outboard tanks at the stern. I saw a great arrangement a few years back that allowed the loading or unloading of these tanks on to the rack on the boat from a dinghy.

Ross
yachtgemini is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 09:06   #13
Registered User

Join Date: Oct 2015
Location: Summerstown Ontario Canada
Posts: 457
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

[QUOTE=Moeller Marine 50 gallon below decks tank with a filler and vent that would lead above decks. what are your thoughts? it will be in a compartment that is behind a water tight bulkhead and away from the living quarters.[/QUOTE]

I have refitted three boats with no problems at all. The problem that I wanted to make sure was to have the tank secured properly. I did so with spray in foam at the corners and anywhere there would be close to something. To prevent chaffing I added foam. A blower is a must and the ground should be back to your common ground of the vessel. All gasoline approved hoses and double clamp all fittings. Vent over the side and filler on deck and voila! Safe voyages...
seabreez is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 10:31   #14
Registered User
 
S/V Alchemy's Avatar

Join Date: May 2008
Location: Nova Scotia until Spring 2021
Boat: Custom 41' Steel Pilothouse Cutter
Posts: 4,976
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pizzazz View Post
There are many sailboats with gas powered inboard engines and internal gas tanks. Have a look at gas tank installations of Atomic 4 powered sailboats. It's not rocket science but you have to consider all contingencies.
I can't think of a single Atomic 4 installation I've seen with greater than, say, 15 gallons of gas in a vented locker. In fact, I reduced my own 12 Imperial (larger) gallon Monel tank to a 10 gallon (U.S.) Tempo (plastic) tank to gain space and the likelihood I would refuel more than once every couple of years.

Fifty (I presume U.S) gallons strikes me as a lot of gasoline to stow. My steel sailboat has two 50-gallon diesel keel tanks and a 10 gallon "daytank". That's about 1,100 NM of econo-cruising range.
__________________
Can't sail? Read about our travels at https://alchemyonpassage.blogspot.com/. Can't sleep? Read www.alchemy2009.blogspot.com for fast relief. Can't read? Avoid www.volumesofsalt.blogspot.com, because it's just personal reviews of sea books.
S/V Alchemy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 17-12-2017, 10:34   #15
Writing Full-Time Since 2014
 
thinwater's Avatar

Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Deale, MD
Boat: PDQ Altair, 32/34
Posts: 9,559
Re: adding a permanent below decks gasoline tank?

Quote:
Originally Posted by billknny View Post
ThinWater,

You DO realize that there are a huge number of gasoline powered boats, right? I would guess there are actually more of them than diesel powered.

USCG and ABYC have clear standards for what's needed. Follow the rules, take care of things and it's fine.

If things go wrong, they go very wrong... I have seen a boat blow up. But if care is taken it's safe.

Yes, I am a chemical engineer, 30-year boater, and understand this very well.

I've also seen one blow up. I didn't read about, I saw it happen from my slip. Shook the windows pretty well. An initial "pop" got us looking the correct direction, and then there was a bang. My wife asked if she should run, but given the distance I reasoned we were safer from flying debris in the cabin.

The fault was not substandard design but age.

Thus, the standard is marginally adequate. However, there is a marine standard and you can build to it.
__________________
Gear Testing--Engineering--Sailing
https://sail-delmarva.blogspot.com/
thinwater is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
deck

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
GPS Receiver Below Decks Dockhead Marine Electronics 30 14-02-2014 12:16
How to get a large dog below decks ddsailor25 Families, Kids and Pets Afloat 27 09-12-2012 06:52
Challenge: How Much Extra Fuel and Water Do You Carry on Deck, or Below Decks ? Ocean Roads Challenges 8 10-11-2011 18:24
Requirements for Storage of Gasoline on a Non-Gasoline-Powered Vessel Captain Bill Rules of the Road, Regulations & Red Tape 19 07-11-2010 21:08
Gasoline in the Diesel Tank? svHyLyte Engines and Propulsion Systems 28 23-03-2008 06:29

Advertise Here


All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:54.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.