A problem with a Bristol 32

[HappyMdRSailor]

Originally Posted by Mainebristol

Cool. When I do this, I think I will come back to this thread with pictures showing what I have done, mistakes and all. Should be fun!

PLEASE DO!!!!!

I always take the time to thank the OP when they post a solution... It not only encourages us to help resolve a problem.... BUT....

Occasionally we learn something too!

Merry Christmas!

[Mainebristol]

Just to finish the story,...

I looked at the age of everything, motor mounts and so on, and this became a major event. Everything had been installed in '95. So, it was WAY past time to renew it all.
There is very, very little room behind the engine of a B32. The water heater had to come out, first of all, and even then I couldn't really get any purchase under there. I thought of tying a rope to my daughter's leg and stuffing her down a cockpit hatch, but that didn't seem legal... and there was some question about the shaft being torqued. So I cut it out of the boat with a sawzall. I sent out for a new one with a new matched coupling, and a overhaul kit for the PSS. The prop got overhauled. I picked up the Yanmar y2gmf with a spanish windlass made out of tubular webbing from a 2x4 spanning the top of the companionway, and replaced all four motor mounts. The damn things might as well be made of gold. The cutlass bearing got cut out with a hacksaw blade(only way) and replaced. Alignment was a little time consuming, but not as tricky as I thought. I just kept moving back and forth from the companionway with a prybar and some wrenches(engine) and cramming myself into the cockpit locker with a .001 feeler gauge.(coupling) This took about an hour. It was very difficult to get enough compression on the new PSS baffle, but finally that was done as well.
The prop turns with no binding in neutral (on the hard, obviously) and while she does make a few cups of water after six hours of motoring, I consider the project a success.
Incidentally, I never did find out how the shaft backed out, but I suspect the motor mounts. Whatever. Considering the age of everything(!) this had to happen anyway.

The total cost was something on the order of $1,400 dollars, largely because of those damn motor mounts. $245 each? Really, Yanmar? For frickin' rubber? Seriously? But I had received solemn advise not to go with aftermarket. (sigh) ok. Total time was several days, and a LOT of headscratching. Let me know if you want to turn a nut while lying face down, feet extended above you toward the stern, with arm fully extended, over a gaping, bottomless hole, with a ratchet plus extension. I can give endless advice.

[sanibel sailor]

Is the B32 hull made in 2 halves? The stern tube itself may be leaking where it joins the hull. If the PSS leaks, it usually throws a black stripe perpendicular to the shaft. Check that the carbon face is not damaged.

[MaritimeBristol]

Well, after prowling around this site for quite some time I thought it was about time to sign up. I purchased a 1966 Bristol 32 a few years ago with the intention to learn sailing and fix up the boat in a gradual way. This has worked out quite well. I have the luxury of sailing on inland waters while figuring things out and still have a couple of seasons to go before I plan on doing any coastal cruising.

I have found some interesting threads here regarding the pros and cons of the Bristol 32 and I think this thread gives a good indication of the very poor access to the engine, drive train, and stuffing box on the Bristol 32.

My boat got some extensive upgrades around 1995 and is in quite good condition. The only repair I did prior to going sailing was to cut out the plywood/fibreglass for the aft chain plate and repair it like the original design.

After 2 seasons, I think it's time to do the stuffing box. Remarkably, I suspect this hasn't been done since the mid nineties when the 3 cylinder Yanmar raw water cooled engine was installed, about 900 hours ago. I've been keeping a very close watch on the stuffing box and the shaft log looks good but the drip rate was quite high when underway, probably slightly more than one drip per second.

Anyway, just getting access to the stuffing box seems like mission impossible. With the three cylinder engine I probably have even less room to work than Mainebristol.

I find this situation unacceptable from a design stand point and will be looking at ways to get better access in the future. I recall seeing some photos of a modified B32 with what looked like an access hatch built into the cockpit floor. To get that to work on my boat would require moving the fuel tank aft. I think that's what was done on the B32 I mentioned but it was probably a smaller custom built tank.

My present plan is to remove the screws holding the engine to the bed, winch the entire engine, mounts, transmission and drive shaft forward up a 2X6 ramp, then take it from there. This is totally nuts, of course, but I don't see a better way to do it. Hopefully, once the engine is pulled forward I can come up with a way to get better access in the future.

The project will be starting in a couple of weeks and I plan on posting some progress reports on a new thread but in the meantime, any tips, comments or warnings?

[sanibel sailor]

If it is difficult to access, a dripless might be best.

[Mainebristol]

Hello, MaritimeBristol, and congratulations on your boat! No doubt by now you know all the strengths and weaknesses of B32's, so I won't bore you. But about that stuffing box...
As you no doubt have read, I've got the PSS system on mine. works like a charm. But I still have to get access to it every now and then. So the question is what do you have installed in those cockpit lockers? Is your battery box in there? Or a hot water heater, maybe? I've got batteries to port, and I had a hot water heater to starboard, but I removed the water heater. With that out of the way, I was able to gain access. Painful access, but access none the less. With my feet jammed up inside the locker toward the stern, lying on my belly, I could get in there with whatever tools I needed. Stuff a blanket or something big down the hole so you don't drop your tools down there.
I'm six feet, and an expanding 245 pounds. I'm fifty six. I could just manage this without major injury.
If you do pull your engine, take the opportunity to replace the engine mounts, which harden over time. These are very, very expensive, so it helps to pull out some nose hairs to get in the proper mood before you order them. Be sure to get the proper replacements! This can be screwed up! Take your time aligning your engine. This has to be done right. For what it's worth, I picked mine up with some tubular webbing strung over a 2by4 place over the companionway.
This whole process was a pain, but it can be done. Please let me know if you have any questions.

MaineBristol, B32 "Eider"

[Mainebristol]

I just re-read my post, and realized that it's not much help, really. wish I was there to dig into this with you. Please let me know if you have any specific questions. These forums feature endless well-meaning epistles without really illustrating things in a meaningful way, if that makes sense. Sorry.

[MaritimeBristol]

Thanks for the comments. Mainebristol, your comments are helpful, particularly regarding the cockpit lockers. My boat has the engine start battery and exhaust muffler in the starboard locker. The port locker just has the manual bilge pump so will take a closer look there. My initial impression regarding access through the locker wasn't good but as you managed to get some things done from there I will give it a shot. Working through the engine bay I could barely get a wrench on the stuffing box and trying to apply enough torque to even loosen the lock nut proved impossible on my first attempt. Even assuming I can get the stuffing box nuts loose I don't see a way to get adequate access to re-pack it without dragging everything forward.

Once I get back to the boat in about a week I will check the locker access. I understand the comments regarding the engine mounts and a PSS system. If I end up pulling all kinds of things apart it would be best to spend some money now and not have to worry so much about those items in the future.

[Jim Cate]

Here's a thought, MB: considering how difficult access is to the stuffing box, seems likely that it has not been adjusted often. So, it is pretty likely that it does not need repacking, but merely adjusting. Not that this task is easy withsuch bad access, but far easier than repacking!

I wish that the bastards who design these boats had to live with them for a few years! If they had to service things themselves, more attention to access would be paid!

Jim

[malbert73]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

I wish that the bastards who design these boats had to live with them for a few years! If they had to service things themselves, more attention to access would be paid!

Jim

Well, Ted Hood knew a thing about designing boats. But so did Bill Luders who designed my prior Luders 33 with similar poor engine access. I guess back in the 60s when they were designed, no one considered engine access. Real men sailed. Engines were auxiliaries. Or something like that. I don't miss lying on top of the engine, squeezed under cockpit sole, with the word "yanmar" being stamped permanently on my chest from engine block- all to reach the stuffing box with 1.5 hands.


Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

[MaritimeBristol]

Originally Posted by Jim Cate

Here's a thought, MB: considering how difficult access is to the stuffing box, seems likely that it has not been adjusted often. So, it is pretty likely that it does not need repacking, but merely adjusting. Not that this task is easy withsuch bad access, but far easier than repacking!


Jim

The big concern for me is the age of the present shaft log / rubber hose. I 'think' it hasn't been changed since about 1995 and 900hrs on the Yanmar. There is also a good chance the stuffing box hasn't been re packed since then as well. Your comment is interesting, though, as it raises the big question regarding a safe life limit for those things. Quite a few of the seasonal sailors where my boat is at haven't done a re pack in 10 years and those are power boats. The general consensus is "don't adjust the stuffing box every year, just give it a slight tighten if the drip rate gets "excessive." I'm not sure how to define excessive, though. Somewhere on the internet someone mentioned they haven't done a re pack in 15 years. As I mentioned, there's a good chance mine hasn't been done in 20 years.

I hope to be sailing for the next 10 years and think a good quality shaft log / clamp combination should be safe over that time frame. I'm really unsure about the stuffing box, however. Some people are getting very long life even using the standard stuffing material and I think any potential failure might be relatively predictable. Maybe something like an excessive drip rate that doesn't respond well to a slight tightening. Anyway, while I have done some exploratory surgery the final decision regarding the best approach still remains.

[Mainebristol]

I wish we all had a better response to this issue. I have a fuel tank in the way of access from above, so a hatch through the cockpit won't help. I guess my answer is that once every decade or so I'm gonna pick that Yanmar bastard up with a spanish windlass from the top of the companionway, and do the work from the cockpit locker. Realistically, I may be able to do this once more, due to age. After that, I'll have to hire some luckless youth.
One thing, though. After going through this once, I know it can be done. No single part of this job is terribly daunting, just do yourself a favor and take it one step at a time. In total, it's no more than a day's miserable work. A helper is useful, but not required. BE SURE TO STUFF SOMETHING BULKY DOWN THE HOLE! It's not like you can turn the boat upside down and shake it. Ask me how I know.

[MaritimeBristol]

I have made some progress with the stuffing box and new shaft hose on my Bristol 32. A good "do it yourselfer" could probably have done the job in a few days but it will probably take me about 3 weeks, partly due to some delays getting parts, partly because I live away from the boat, and partly because working on boats is all new to me. I usually look at things for about 3 hours for every 30 minutes of actual work!

The engine has been pulled forward up the ramp using a come along and it's sitting on the ramp at the aft end of the cabin floor. The drive shaft pulled through the stern tube and stuffing box OK but I should have adjusted the ramp angle and elevation a bit better to avoid the end of the shaft hanging up a bit on the stern tube.

The drive shaft has been removed and looks in good shape. The old 3 ply shaft hose and clamps were in surprisingly good shape and probably would have lasted another 20 years. Even with the stuffing box removed I had a hard time moving the lock nut and needed 2 pipe wrench's with a foot on one of them to get it released. The packing material looked quite good [probably teflon type] and the three rings came out intact. If I could have tightened it a bit I think it may have been good for a few more years.

I just got a 1 5/8 ID 5 ply shaft hose delivered but it will be a week before I can get back to the boat and put things together. I think I can get the boat back in the water by mid June. The Yanmar engine mounts look good even though they are probably 20 years old. I'm going to take a chance and see if they are good for another 10 years. Will try to check the shaft alignment during installation.

The drive shaft is remarkably short, only 21 inches long. The tight packaging makes maintenance difficult. It's not all bad though, the cut out in the rudder makes prop removal easy, even with the 13 inch 3 blade prop. I think drive shaft removal with the engine in place would be possible after removal of the alternator, starter and air filter. I guess it would be logical to use a split coupling on this boat but after a quick look through a catalog I'm not sure if there is one available for a 7/8 inch shaft. Even if one is available, it may end up being too long.

Once I get the boat back in the water I will try and post a few pics and describe the ramp system a bit better. It seems to be a good approach and might prove useful to anyone with access issues.

[Mainebristol]

That sounds better than suspending it from the companionway. Did you have any trouble aligning everything? Ah. I see you haven't gotten there yet. I'm sure you'll figure it out.

[Cheechako]

Have you inspected the shaft? Make sure you do where it sits in the stuffing box. Not uncommon for them to be well corroded where that water sits in there.