90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Guys, thanks for sharing this. It's info that's both good, AND interesting. Plus, it's not one of the standard topics that one sees on here everyday. About which I'm NOT complaining. Quite the contrary.

[carstenb]

Dockhead,

I don't have any problems with this. I use an oil suction pump to empty the oil pan (oil is cold) then I use a filter wrench to just barely loosen the filter. I put a couple of paper towles down in the dam, wrap a plastic bag around the filter and unscrew it by hand.

The filter and any oil in it stays in the bag. Any droplets from the filter tube land on the towels. There is no mess and no fuss.

MY filter is a horizontal mount like yours

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by carstenb

Dockhead,

I don't have any problems with this. I use an oil suction pump to empty the oil pan (oil is cold) then I use a filter wrench to just barely loosen the filter. I put a couple of paper towles down in the dam, wrap a plastic bag around the filter and unscrew it by hand.

The filter and any oil in it stays in the bag. Any droplets from the filter tube land on the towels. There is no mess and no fuss.

MY filter is a horizontal mount like yours

I'll have to try the plastic bag trick. I don't want to risk the problems A64pilot had -- shudder.

The other downside to this, of course, is that you start the engine with an empty oil filter, which can't be good for it. You can't prefill the filter.

Once upon a time, I tried cranking the engine with the stop button down, but that blows the breakers (for some reason). Maybe someone else has a way to turn over a JH3 without starting it? Problem is the damned thing starts if you even look at crossways -- you can't turn it over even half a revolution without it springing to life. I hate listening it to it rattle without oil for those long seconds before the oil fills up the new filter.

[GrahamHO]

Dockhead, it doesn't mater that it rattles for a few seconds as there is an oil coating that sticks to the bearings. In the "old days" racing engines used Castrol R, (castor oil with its great smell) as it had this ability but modern oils have similar qualities.
I was at my local chandlery shop yesterday and a sales guy there had a big burn on his forehead. He told me he had started up his 1400 cc V twin Suzuki bike and as it had been standing a while it rattled. He bent down to look and burned his head on the exhaust. It was just the hydraulic tappets rattling for a few moments while the oil pressure replaced that which drained away over time. So engine rattles can be dangerous if you worry about them.

[Dockhead]

Originally Posted by GrahamHO

Dockhead, it doesn't mater that it rattles for a few seconds as there is an oil coating that sticks to the bearings. In the "old days" racing engines used Castrol R, (castor oil with its great smell) as it had this ability but modern oils have similar qualities.
I was at my local chandlery shop yesterday and a sales guy there had a big burn on his forehead. He told me he had started up his 1400 cc V twin Suzuki bike and as it had been standing a while it rattled. He bent down to look and burned his head on the exhaust. It was just the hydraulic tappets rattling for a few moments while the oil pressure replaced that which drained away over time. So engine rattles can be dangerous if you worry about them.

I would love to believe this, but can it be so?

Yes, there is some residual oil in the engine, but where does the sound come from? Of course it comes from parts banging together which are otherwise separated by oil supplied under pressure. This cannot be good.

[Wotname]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

.....
Once upon a time, I tried cranking the engine with the stop button down, but that blows the breakers (for some reason). Maybe someone else has a way to turn over a JH3 without starting it? Problem is the damned thing starts if you even look at crossways......

IIRC, you have mentioned this before - maybe it's time to sort out why the breakers are popping .

Let me make a stab or two in the dark; presumably the said breaker supplies power to the engine control and indication cicuits ie start and stop solenoids, alarms and gauges.

Maybe its not really a fault as in there is not a large current flow, maybe only such current that exceeds the circuit breaker rating by say less than 100%.
If so, find out what gauge wiring is being used and see if you can up the size of the circuit breaker.
Or divide the circuits and fit two breakers.

"Normally" the stop solenoid has two coils, an operate coil and a hold coil and usually work in a normally operated manner. That is, the solenoid hold coil remains energised while the engine is running. The stop button opens that coil and allows the solenoid to release and so stop the engine. Maybe trying to start with the hold coil unable to enegise is causing the operate coil to remain drawing current and when added to the start solenoid current, trips the breaker. Operate currents are usually much higher than hold currents.

I really only guessing but if you can post the circuit schematic, I or others can sort it out . Its only a circuit after all and ohms law never fails

[Maine Sail]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

It fully tightened, not sure why it blew the O ring, seemed to be the identical adapter, part of what I though slick was the way the threaded portion just "snapped" in and was held by the snap ring, of course this makes the same adapter useable on engines with different center threads.
I still would like to remote mount a filter, just can't have too much oil capacity, or too much filter, but having loss of oil and of course pressure twice has me spooked.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum

If it was a Derale the female threaded insert part was likely bottoming out on your on-engine male threaded base thus leaving the o-ring in little to no compression. This can easily be rectified by milling the female adapter a bit shorter. I simply tried another brand and it fit & seated perfectly. A good trick is to see if it seats fully, metal to metal, first, then put the o-ring in...

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

Once upon a time, I tried cranking the engine with the stop button down, but that blows the breakers (for some reason). Maybe someone else has a way to turn over a JH3 without starting it?

I'm not familiar with the shutdown solenoid/mechanism on your particular engine, but most every arrangement I've seen features some sort of lever or plunger that can be operated manually, as well... It's the only way one can stop the engine in the event of a solenoid/shutdown circuit failure, after all...

Should be a fairly simple matter of holding that mechanism closed while an assistant cranks the engine, or locking it in position with a small wedge, pair of vise grips, whatever, no?

[Rick01541]

I have a Westerbeke which has a downward draining oil filter so plastic bags don't work. I punch a hole and let it drain for a while but it is always a mess. Westerbeke sells a remote filter installation but it is way over priced. Some day I will find a reasonably priced remote filter to install.

[carstenb]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'll have to try the plastic bag trick. I don't want to risk the problems A64pilot had -- shudder.

The other downside to this, of course, is that you start the engine with an empty oil filter, which can't be good for it. You can't prefill the filter.

Once upon a time, I tried cranking the engine with the stop button down, but that blows the breakers (for some reason). Maybe someone else has a way to turn over a JH3 without starting it? Problem is the damned thing starts if you even look at crossways -- you can't turn it over even half a revolution without it springing to life. I hate listening it to it rattle without oil for those long seconds before the oil fills up the new filter.

Well mine doesn't raddle. But if you feel this is a problem, run the engine hot before you change the filter. The change only takes a couple of minutes and there should be enough residual oil on the engine parts to preclude any raddliing.




BTW - re starting if you look at it sideways - do you suppose that was the problem when you and I were in the Channel in a storm - it wouldn't start because we were't looking at it correctly?

[UNCIVILIZED]

Originally Posted by Dockhead

I'll have to try the plastic bag trick. I don't want to risk the problems A64pilot had -- shudder.

The other downside to this, of course, is that you start the engine with an empty oil filter, which can't be good for it. You can't prefill the filter.

Once upon a time, I tried cranking the engine with the stop button down, but that blows the breakers (for some reason). Maybe someone else has a way to turn over a JH3 without starting it? Problem is the damned thing starts if you even look at crossways -- you can't turn it over even half a revolution without it springing to life. I hate listening it to it rattle without oil for those long seconds before the oil fills up the new filter.

On this, there are literally Hundreds of Millions of Vehicles which, when the oil is changed on them, the oil filter isn't pre-filled, prior to starting them afterwards. Yet they run, & run, sans hiccup or engine trouble, quite often for hundreds of thousands of miles.

I've owned quite a few that qualify. And am at 156,684 miles & counting, on my current one. A Toyota 4Runner which Definitely earns it's keep, in ALL conditions.

[Jon Eisberg]

Originally Posted by Rick01541

I have a Westerbeke which has a downward draining oil filter so plastic bags don't work. I punch a hole and let it drain for a while but it is always a mess. Westerbeke sells a remote filter installation but it is way over priced. Some day I will find a reasonably priced remote filter to install.

Classic example of the 'Revenge of the Engineers', for sure... ;-)

Do some poking around, there are scores of components out there for fashioning your own setup...

AMSOIL is a good place to start looking, their bits and pieces are a bit higher priced than the stuff you'll find on eBay, but I've found their parts to be of very good quality, as they specialize in this sort of stuff...

Again, top quality hoses and fittings of the type Maine Sail showed are vital, no way I'd ever want to go with a setup that relies upon hose clamps, for instance... ;-)

[a64pilot]

Mainsail,
I gave up on the adapter, I'll come back to it eventually, maybe.

Others,
On the pre-filling the oil filter, it can't hurt, but I doubt it makes that much difference. Used to be pre-oilers were all the rage. You had an accumulator full of oil under pressure, before you even started the engine, the pre-oiler would provide both oil pressure and oil flow to the engine with the idea that most engine wear occurs at start up and a pre-oiler would eliminate that. Well, guess what, engines with pre-oilers didn't last much if any longer than ones without.
Which brings up the most wear occurs at start up, I've heard it all my life and you see endless ad's and commercials that state that and their oil protects against that etc., it was a generally accepted truism right?
OK, we have had a Prius for the last 5 yrs or so, and if you know anything about those things the engine shuts down the moment you begin slowing down and remains off until you begin to accelerate again, so it is continuously being shut down and restarted, you'd think because of this it's engine would have a short life, but I have over 150,000 miles on ours with no real indication of wear?

[poiu]

Originally Posted by a64pilot

Mainsail,
I gave up on the adapter, I'll come back to it eventually, maybe.

Others,
On the pre-filling the oil filter, it can't hurt, but I doubt it makes that much difference. Used to be pre-oilers were all the rage. You had an accumulator full of oil under pressure, before you even started the engine, the pre-oiler would provide both oil pressure and oil flow to the engine with the idea that most engine wear occurs at start up and a pre-oiler would eliminate that. Well, guess what, engines with pre-oilers didn't last much if any longer than ones without.
Which brings up the most wear occurs at start up, I've heard it all my life and you see endless ad's and commercials that state that and their oil protects against that etc., it was a generally accepted truism right?
OK, we have had a Prius for the last 5 yrs or so, and if you know anything about those things the engine shuts down the moment you begin slowing down and remains off until you begin to accelerate again, so it is continuously being shut down and restarted, you'd think because of this it's engine would have a short life, but I have over 150,000 miles on ours with no real indication of wear?

I thought the thing that wore an engine was the first few minutes of it running when cold rather than the wear from starting up. When cold, clearances are reduced, oil has drained from the gaps between parts and oil is more viscous and not flowing into the gaps at full effectiveness, so there is more wear. Speeding up that process (as well as making for easier starting) is why block heaters and pre-heaters are used. Your warmed up Prius isn't suffering these problems.

[hellosailor]

Dockhead-
You know flying boats and other aircraft where engine failure could be outright inconvenient used to have electric pre-start lubrication pumps, right? Part of the starting sequence was to start the oil pump and build pressure before starting the engine, and yes, you can retrofit the same gear to any engine that you are particularly fond of.
"there is an oil coating that sticks to the bearings." Which is another reason to use a synthetic engine oil. They have improved "thin film" lubrication qualities, so that the oil stays as a thin coating way longer than conventional oils used to. And the coating that does stay, is also a far better lubricant.
As it was explained to me, even the best engine with the tightest bearings will "slam" as the shaft turns in the bearings, typically hitting three times as it lifts (and goes sideways) falls (and goes sideways) and lifts again, before any oil pressure is built. The thin-film properties of the synthetic oils are supposed to be very important during that start-up and even though you still hear a slam, the direct metal-on-metal contact is not happening.
Of course if you switch to a dry sump and remote filter as well as a pre-start oil pressure pump...Or you can have some faith in the fact that your engine should be able to provide a reasonable number of starts "as is" from the factory. If you're not flying in and out of remote pacific atolls...factory might be good enough.