Cruisers Forum
 


Join CruisersForum Today

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-08-2015, 10:20   #16
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Bern, NC
Boat: Holman & Pye Red Admiral 36
Posts: 498
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

The o-ring on the remote oil filter adapter is the weak point of the whole system.

I had one leak (not totally fail) because it wasn't large enough in diameter to make a firm seal when the adapter was screwed onto the engine (Volvo 2003 engine).

I took the adapter to a machine shop and had them change the groove for the o-ring from the small one that was made during the casting process into a machined flat bottom "u" shaped channel to fit the flat o-ring that comes on the standard oil filter.

The flat o-ring gives much more contact surface area when the adapter is screwed onto the engine block and you always can get a spare just by carefully prying a flat o-ring off of a new oil filter.

These flat o-rings are all pretty generic in size and thickness from one brand of filter to the other, but make sure the diameters of the o-ring (od and id) will be in full contact with the mounting surface of your engine block.

Be sure to put a thin film of oil on the flat o-ring before putting everything together - same for the o-ring on the new oil filter cartridge.

Many of the manufacturers of the remote / relocation oil filter kits say "Not to be used on marine engines". This is because all of the fittings are made from 6061 aluminum (either cast or machined), which can suffer from corrosion in the marine environment. The other worry was that the sulphuric acid in the oil (from the combustion of diesel fuel) would eat away the aluminum.

Well, if you have that much sea water sloshing around in your engine space to damage your aluminum adapters, you have a lot of problems. If you change your oil often (which is the whole point of the remote filters) will never have a problem with acid. The new low sulfur fuels are much cleaner and I would imagine produce a lot less acid.

I have had a remote oil filter adapter on the Volvo for over 30-years. I replaced everything once (adapter, hoses, flat o-ring) about 20 years ago as I re-locate the whole assembly and have never had a problem. The same flat o-ring has been in place the entire time (20-years).

I carry some spare Goodyear "push on" hose "just in case" as well as a couple of original "non-adapter" factory Volvo filters in case I would have to go back to the original design for some reason.

As mentioned there a lot of different manufacturers of oil filters that use the same threads. The filters also come in a couple of different diameters and a lot of different lengths so you will be able to find something that will fit the space available.

You can go the the Fram webpage (other manufacturers have sites too) and find out what micro size the filter element is for their various filters. I spend a rainy afternoon once checking out about a zillion different manufacturers (US and foreign) filters that would fit onto my remote adapter and found that the micro ratings were usually either 10, 15 or 25 - very much like the Racor fuel filter elements.

So if you find a Zapo oil filter sitting on the shelf of the fruits and vegetable aisle in some teeny general store in Way Way Tanango, you can be pretty sure it can be safely be used on your engine as the threads, o-ring and filtration rates are nearly the same world wide.

My engine - now 30-years old - still has the factory recommended oil pressure readings at idle and at speed when at operating temperature (ie - hot), so the hoses and adapters don't really effect the oil pressure - but they are "full flow" 1/2" fittings and hoses so there are no "restrictions" in the oil system.

The remote filter was the best thing I ever did for the Volvo engine!
__________________

__________________
Doug Brown is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 10:27   #17
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

The one point I've repeatedly been told about remote oil filter kits, is that at best they add four new possible failure nodes to your engine, two end fittings for each of the two hoses. Something to consider versus the "mess" of an original filter change.


A friend of mine installed one in his car, and one day on the parkway...you guessed it, an engine bay full of oil. That was the end of that convenient idea.
__________________

__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 10:49   #18
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

As long as you're thinking of going to a remote filter setup, I'd suggest you consider the addition of a bypass filtration arrangement, as well...

PassageMaker - November/December 2012

I think the fear of a hose or fitting failure is often overblown, shouldn't be much of a risk when using high-quality components such as Aeroquipt hoses, etc... The interstates and oceans are populated with 18-wheelers and Nordhavns running large and expensive diesels using filters mounted remotely ;-) It would seem to be much less of a risk on a marine engine, where vibration and road impacts routinely seen by fleet trucks are essentially eliminated on a boat...

Just to be safe, however, I'd want a manual oil pressure gauge, instead of an electric one... Good idea IMHO, even if you're not running a remote filter ;-)

Bill Seifert's Passagemaking Tip #125...

20P / 25P Series | Murphy by Enovation Controls


__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 11:02   #19
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,024
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by nigel1 View Post
I'm currently using Fleetguard (Cummins) and MANN filters, which so far as I am aware are good quality.
My understanding from bobistheoilguy.com, that fleetguard are excellent filters
NAPA Gold is another good one, as well as Purolator, seems that Fram is the only one that isn't, and it has to do with filter media, thickness of the can, drain back valve, type of spring that holds the filter media etc.
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 13:31   #20
֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎֍֎

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 13,022
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Jon-
I'd agree with you but in auto racing, they have long changed from manual oil pressure gauges (bourdon tunes, which eventually fatigue and leak) to electric, for improved reliability. You'd think the manual ones were KISS superior, but there's some very picky engineers who say not.
Flip a coin?(G)
__________________
hellosailor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 14:01   #21
Eternal Member

Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 848
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hellosailor View Post
Jon-
I'd agree with you but in auto racing, they have long changed from manual oil pressure gauges (bourdon tunes, which eventually fatigue and leak) to electric, for improved reliability. You'd think the manual ones were KISS superior, but there's some very picky engineers who say not.
Flip a coin?(G)
That's a good argument I suppose, but given my experience with the reliability of cockpit-mounted instrument panel gauges on a variety of sailboats over the years, I think I'll stick with my manual Murphy Swichgage... ;-)

Situated inside the companionway and out of the elements, along with the engine start key, and everything else... Mind-boggling, some of the spots boatbuilders choose to situate their engine instrument panels...

;-)...
__________________
Jon Eisberg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 14:32   #22
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I bet I'm not the only person who gets tired of catching the flood of nasty black engine oil when I take the oil filter off my Yanmar.

I just discovered that the Yanmar filter is a generic type, equivalent to a Fram PH3593A and many others, used on all kinds of different cars. The Fram will be a superior filter and I will try to get my hands on some.

For a common filter type I would expect to find some accessories -- does anyone know whether there is a 90-degree adapter for these filters, which will allow us to pull the filters without the flood of hot oil? WOuldn't that be great?
FWIW the orange Fram's, designated by a "PH" in front of the number, eg: PH3593A is a low quality filter in my experience. The orange Fram PH's are the only filters I have had more than one of "drain back" even though it is equipped with an anti-drainback valve.

After my third or fourth customer with an empty horizontal Fram PH filter I called Fram and was told "Not surprising that is a cheap anti-drainback valve. You are best to go up to our TG or Tough Guard series or better."...

In addition to a 90 take-off you can also do a remote mounted filter and also be able to up the physical filter size by using a different size remote-head. I did this on our boat and the oil not only has more capacity but stays cleaner considerably longer. I use Wix (NAPA GOLD), Baldwin or Donaldson filters on my remote mount..

The remote oil filter was one of the best upgrades I have done. I used Parker PUSH-LOK PLUS hydraulic hose & fittings rated at 300PSI, a bit over kill, but all in all not that expensive.....

For a typical 3593A filter Honda cars use them too and a remote take-off for a Honda will usually work. Be sure to physically measure the filter landing width where the gasket will hit and compare this to actual take-offs. You have two choices in take-offs, billet machined or cast. Billet is more expensive but either will work fine....


Here is a shot with the parts. Note the size difference between the factory filter and the new remote filter.


I mounted the remote filter head with Weld-Mount studs...
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 15:16   #23
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,024
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Maine Sail, the part you have that screws onto the stock engine filter pad looks identical to the one that I had, that blew the sealing O ring, twice. Up until the point that it blew, I thought the kit to be slick.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 16:52   #24
Marine Service Provider
 
Maine Sail's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maine
Boat: CS-36T - Cupecoy
Posts: 3,060
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
Maine Sail, the part you have that screws onto the stock engine filter pad looks identical to the one that I had, that blew the sealing O ring, twice. Up until the point that it blew, I thought the kit to be slick.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Over 1000 hours on it..... Doubt it's an issue and it has never leaked a drop.

There are lots of low quality products out there so one needs to be careful.. I bought one from Derale that would not thread all the way down due to a poor machining issue. Bought another brand and it was a perfect fit... Perhaps you had the Derale unit where the "threaded insert" did not allow full tightening?
__________________
Marine How To Articles
Maine Sail is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 17:24   #25
Moderator
 
a64pilot's Avatar

Cruisers Forum Supporter

Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Albany Ga.
Boat: Island Packet 38
Posts: 17,024
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

It fully tightened, not sure why it blew the O ring, seemed to be the identical adapter, part of what I though slick was the way the threaded portion just "snapped" in and was held by the snap ring, of course this makes the same adapter useable on engines with different center threads.
I still would like to remote mount a filter, just can't have too much oil capacity, or too much filter, but having loss of oil and of course pressure twice has me spooked.



Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
__________________
a64pilot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 17:41   #26
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

Quote:
Originally Posted by a64pilot View Post
I still would like to remote mount a filter, just can't have too much oil capacity, or too much filter, but having loss of oil and of course pressure twice has me spooked.
Sent from my iPad using Cruisers Sailing Forum
Probably almost all of the old Cessna 421's and other GTSIO's jobs are in the salvage yards by now. Buy one of their remote filter mounts. Takes a standard old 3/4x16 thread filter.
__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 18:26   #27
Registered User

Join Date: Aug 2012
Posts: 811
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

I agree with Dockhead and that it's a complicated way to solve a simple problem. That problem is changing a filter once a year. Yanmar engineers are concerned about reliability and the simple horizontal filter mount is more reliable than introducing another set of O rings and an adapter that might loosen, or hoses that might leak. The filter element will be repositioned to another place where it may or may not be more vulnerable to accidental damage. Like, the motor rocks around on its mounts, even just when stopping, or the alternator adjustment loosens off.

Someone uses a plastic bag to change the stock filter which is a good idea. I use a plastic ice cream container under the filter and drop the element in. I don't get any mess and if you want to combine both those ideas neither will you.

I well remember draining the oil sumps on DC6 Pratt and Whitney engines and reaching up between the lower cylinders to do that. If you want difficult that's it.

The Yanmar element is the correct micron rating whether or not a generic one may or may not be. So it costs $20 more than a generic element. That's about 5 cups of coffee at Starbucks over a year.

This discussion reminds me of advertisements in Popular Mechanics years ago for an add on oil filter which used a toilet roll as as an element. Down the toilet is where that idea went.
__________________
GrahamHO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 19:00   #28
Registered User

Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 4,413
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

I've grappled with this problem for 30 years of changing oil filters 3 or more times a year. The geometry and space I have to work with does give me many options... - none and so I usually set out a small blanket of paper towels which received the oil spilling out of the horizontal filter as it is unscrewed. All in all it's still a mess and after the new one is on I do a clean up and replace the oil absorbent pad under the engine.

I don't know why someone doesn't make an after market kit which can be screwed on the block so that the filter can be placed remotely, vertically and more accessible.
__________________
Sandero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 19:21   #29
Registered User
 
sy_gilana's Avatar

Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: On board
Boat: Van de Stadt 50'
Posts: 1,101
Send a message via Skype™ to sy_gilana
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

My oil filter on my Onan pokes out the side too.

I take a Philips screwdriver and hammer and poke a hole into it near the outer end at 9 o'clock then turn it 1/4 turn loose, and it starts dripping into the jug, then I smack another hole in at 12 o'clock and the oil runs out. 10 minutes later I slip a Ziplock bag over it all the way to the base of the bag, and proceed to unscrew it. The Ziplock catches any remaining oil, and a rag under the mounting catches the few drops that remain. I wipe up, and pre-oil the new filter to about 1/3 full, (so it wont leak out) Oil the rubber seal and refit.
After refilling the oil I manually hold down the fuel solenoid and crank on the starter motor for 10 seconds to prime the oil system.
I do one warm change and then one cold change alternately, best of both theories.
__________________
Tight sheets to ya.
http://gilana.org
sy_gilana is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2015, 19:33   #30
Guy
Registered User

Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: So. Oregon, USA
Boat: Seafarer36c
Posts: 4,308
Re: 90-Degree Oil Filter Adapter?

We have the factory Perkins 107/108 spin on adapter. It's in a pretty good spot so it should be a snap but I can hardly ever get through an oil and filter change without making a mistake and getting oil on something. Me or the boat, usually both.
__________________

__________________
Guy is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
oil, oil filter

Thread Tools
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Perkins spin on engine fuel filter adapter Martinini Construction, Maintenance & Refit 0 22-09-2012 12:32
A near 360 degree rollover knockdown watersofdiego General Sailing Forum 4 07-12-2008 13:29
Caribbean 360 degree Rastarea Atlantic & the Caribbean 1 09-04-2008 20:27



Copyright 2002- Social Knowledge, LLC All Rights Reserved.

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 23:04.


Google+
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Social Knowledge Networks
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.

ShowCase vBulletin Plugins by Drive Thru Online, Inc.