50hp Perkins won't rev past 1900rpm

[Hoohaa]

[Cap Erict3]

Originally Posted by Hoohaa

I used it to bleed air through to the inlet banjo fitting and then cranked snd bled from the injectors. Am I missing some additional bleed points on the injector pump? Sucked it through with giant seringe.

Yes. You are not bleeding your injector pump. The CAV has 3 5/16 nuts that are used to bleed the pump housing.

[Cap Erict3]

I don't recognize you pump from the pics. Do you know the model?

[Cap Erict3]

http://www.fujiyachts.net/misc/fuelbleeding.html

[Cap Erict3]

Looks like you have 2 bleed screws.

[Hoohaa]

Originally Posted by Cap Erict3

I don't recognize you pump from the pics. Do you know the model?

The engine is a 100 series 104-22 I can't pin point the pump yet but I got some pictures of it in a manual from somewhere so I am going to look for it.

[Badsanta]

I was not trying to bust your chops. Just trying to help.
It's just that air in a fuel line is misunderstood and an extremely common problem. Now that you've explained it. Best of luck.

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[Hoohaa]

I am starting to think that I have completely missed a step in the bleeding process.
Twice before I have had to bleed the engine to get it going. On both those times we were able to start it doing pretty much what we have been doing. The diiference this time is that we have probably completely drained the fuel out while changing the filters where as before, we have just ran out of fuel and cut the motor very quickly.
So with luck their is air still trapped in the IP which I will hopefully bleed tomorrow using that hiden bleed bolt (hiden in clear view).
Unfortunately I have not been able to put my finger on the I Pump model yet.
Worth a try? or clutching at straws?

[Irish rambler]

Wow, this seems like a real nightmare. May I respectfully suggest you slightly modify your approach to your fuel system for future easy operation. You can buy a small button pump(low price)from ASAP supplies.com for the Perkins. You simply undo the banjo bolt on the fuel intake line at the engine filter, fit the 'button pump' with a new longer banjo bolt. If bleeding is necessary the button can be operated with the heel of your hand, it's also on the same side of the engine as your injector pump so there's no need for bodily contortions and sore fingers from the fiddly metal lift pump lever. When changing filters you simply run the engine until it's warm(makes restarting easier). Remove the old 'spin on' filter and discard, change the 'O' ring in the filter head, fill the new filter full with diesel and screw on. Open the throttle wide, start the engine, once firing close throttle to fast idle. There is absolutely no need for syringes and other paraphernalia. Normally, if you do it right, there's no bleeding necessary at all but If the engine doesn't start, open 2 injectors and turn the engine over and as soon as it starts to fire close the injectors.
If an engine doesn't rev out fully.
With someone on the throttle rev the engine fully, if it doesn't reach 'no loads' revs operate the button pump vigorously, if it then revs out more you have a fuel supply problem, ie blocked pickup, other filter dirty, too small a delivery or kinked hose.
I hope this will help you make an easier job of it.
If you can't find ASAP supplies on Google leave me a message and I'll send you the details.

[Uncle Bob]

Originally Posted by Hoohaa

I am starting to think that I have completely missed a step in the bleeding process.
Twice before I have had to bleed the engine to get it going. On both those times we were able to start it doing pretty much what we have been doing. The diiference this time is that we have probably completely drained the fuel out while changing the filters where as before, we have just ran out of fuel and cut the motor very quickly.
So with luck their is air still trapped in the IP which I will hopefully bleed tomorrow using that hiden bleed bolt (hiden in clear view).
Unfortunately I have not been able to put my finger on the I Pump model yet.
Worth a try? or clutching at straws?

Definately worth a try, I still think it feels like it wants to go but there must be enough air there to make it just say NO.

[Hoohaa]

Originally Posted by Irish rambler

Wow, this seems like a real nightmare. May I respectfully suggest you slightly modify your approach to your fuel system for future easy operation. You can buy a small button pump(low price)from ASAP supplies.com for the Perkins. You simply undo the banjo bolt on the fuel intake line at the engine filter, fit the 'button pump' with a new longer banjo bolt. If bleeding is necessary the button can be operated with the heel of your hand, it's also on the same side of the engine as your injector pump so there's no need for bodily contortions and sore fingers from the fiddly metal lift pump lever. When changing filters you simply run the engine until it's warm(makes restarting easier). Remove the old 'spin on' filter and discard, change the 'O' ring in the filter head, fill the new filter full with diesel and screw on. Open the throttle wide, start the engine, once firing close throttle to fast idle. There is absolutely no need for syringes and other paraphernalia. Normally, if you do it right, there's no bleeding necessary at all but If the engine doesn't start, open 2 injectors and turn the engine over and as soon as it starts to fire close the injectors.
If an engine doesn't rev out fully.
With someone on the throttle rev the engine fully, if it doesn't reach 'no loads' revs operate the button pump vigorously, if it then revs out more you have a fuel supply problem, ie blocked pickup, other filter dirty, too small a delivery or kinked hose.
I hope this will help you make an easier job of it.
If you can't find ASAP supplies on Google leave me a message and I'll send you the details.

Thanks I will take a look at it.

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[FlyingCloud1937]

That is in fact the only bleed screw on the pump. You have what is known as a cartridge stye pump. It's not a CAV.

You have to be careful of running these style pumps dry, ticking an engine over for long periods of time without properly bleeding will score the plungers, there is one for each cylinder.

Loosen the bleed screw 3-4 turns operate the fuel pump lever until free fuel appears with no bubbles. The injectors themselves are self bleeding, by the return line.

Lloyd

Originally Posted by Hoohaa

Attachment 76559

[Hoohaa]

Originally Posted by FlyingCloud1937

That is in fact the only bleed screw on the pump. You have what is known as a cartridge stye pump. It's not a CAV.

You have to be careful of running these style pumps dry, ticking an engine over for long periods of time without properly bleeding will score the plungers, there is one for each cylinder.

Loosen the bleed screw 3-4 turns operate the fuel pump lever until free fuel appears with no bubbles. The injectors themselves are self bleeding, by the return line.

Lloyd

Great. It sounds like we are on to something.
Regarding the self priming. Are you saying that once the IP is properly bled then I do not have to bleed her at each of the injectors? She should just bleed herself and start?

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[FlyingCloud1937]

Originally Posted by Hoohaa

Great. It sounds like we are on to something.
Regarding the self priming. Are you saying that once the IP is properly bled then I do not have to bleed her at each of the injectors? She should just bleed herself and start?

Sent from my GT-I9505 using Cruisers Sailing Forum mobile app

Yes, the injectors are self bleeding, by way of the return line, you will see that each injector has a small tube that starts at #1, and then goes to 2, then 3, then 4, then a rubber line that returns to the tank.

When you were bleeding at the injection pump inlet you were only bleeding the filters, not the pump.

The bleed screw as marked in the pictures is the only way to bleed the pump. Under each of those HP line coming from the pump, is a plunger, which is the acting force for HP to each injector.

Also you should replace each of the sealing washers under/over each of the banjos. I believe these are alumunum, and can be a source of air in the system, once they have been undone a couple of time, plus a work harden with age.

Again, I advise not to tick/crank the engine over for any amount of time with out purging/bleeding the IP. This will damage the plungers, and quite likely the casset. Also running the engine out of fuel can damage both as well.

Once the IP is properly purged, disconnect the rubber return line on the number 4 injector get a quart mason jar, and a section of rubber hose , run it from the the #4 injector, into the mason jar, then tick over the engine, she will either start, or tick over on the starter. Watch for air bubbles in the mason jar. If she doesn't start, quit cranking after 20 seconds, wait 5 minutes, and doe it again. by the 3rd or 4th time. she should be running, and you will have enough fuel in the jar to make sure all air is purged from the system.

If you are getting bubble by this time you still have an air leak.

Now once shes running, after shes warmed up. run her at a fast idle 1100 rpm, now undue the HP at injector #1, if that doesn't change the speed, and cause rough running that cylinder is firing proper. Now go through each cylinder one at a time. If any cause the engine to drop speed and run rough then, that is a problem cylinder, start by removing that injector for inspection.

Also because the HP line at the injector, is at such high pressure, make sure to use a rag draped to cover the injector, so as not to injure yourself.

Lloyd

[Craig Staunton]

Hi there. I have a 80hp Perkins in my yacht which is turned off by pulling a T shaped knob that shuts off fuel supply on the injector pump. The T shaped knob is pushed all the way in for starting. If the knob is not right down the engine starves for fuel and wont pull full revs. If you have this type of engine shut off check that the lever on the injector pump is being returned to the correct position for starting and not half on/off. Cheers Craig