Possible Insight Into Why Americans Want to Carry Guns

[DeepFrz]

Gord May said;

A bigger mistake may be our collective & individual failure to learn and to teach RESPECT (for ourselves and for others, etc), which is the basis of ETHICS (moral philosophy).

Peace and security are experienced within ourselves. I think that the people who feel they need to carry a gun in order to feel secure are missing the boat (had to get boating in here somehow). <gr>

The U.S. has a huge prison population and yet many of it's citizens still live in fear. I must say that many Canadians live in fear as well, even though the violent crime rate is lower, especially gun crime. Just the other day a close friend was talking about arming himself. However, a Canadian is more likely to get stabbed than shot. Still not a situation I wish to experience.

The three stike law doesn't seem to have increased the feeling of peace and security in the country as was promised by the politicians and now the Canadian Government is attempting the same thing here.

I find that for the most part I feel secure. I walk just about anywhere in this city. There are places that I wont go at night, but I have no need to go there, so it doesn't present a big problem to me. I used to live in the city center and walked to work (shift work) and only recall two situations (in two years) that got my adrenaline pumping. Both situations, as it turned out, were benign. When I walk I try to keep aware of what is going on around me, but I don't worry that I am going to be attacked. It happens that peaceful people do get hurt in this city, just as people get injured or killed in traffic accidents. In fact I am much more alert when I cross at an intersection than when I walk down a quiet street in the inner city.

Even though I don't have much money I figure that if I am robbed I will give what I have without resistance and let the police handle it. Where would I be now or how do you think I would feel if, in one of the adrenaline producing situations mentioned above, I had shot the young man who only wanted to know the time but startled me out of my sleep walk? After all things are only things and they can be replaced, usually by insurance. I loaned a boat to a friend one time and he damaged it beyond repair. Should I have shot him? Instead of worrying about my loss my concern was with his safety and well being and as it turned out he reimbursed me for the loss and our friendship was enhanced.

I particularly like the "Peace, Order and good Government" style of life, if only we could get "good" government<gr>. I have heard many times that we get the government that we deserve. If we (as a nation) sleepwalk through life we end up with a controlling, fear inducing government instead of the type of government that will foster peace and order.

End of my rant. I wish everyone a happy 2007.

Gord, thank you for making my point so much more succinctly.

[ssullivan]

DeepFrz: I hate to add to this post, since it's basically done, but I think we're talking about two very different things.

You mention walking around with a gun, possibly shooting people who ask for the time and shooting someone who you lent your boat to. These scenarios are all outside of the realm of what I was speaking about.

I mention keeping a gun (or Tazer, or maul - got one of those too!, or whatever) inside my boat to repel uninvited boarders who do not stop when asked, or identify themselves as law enforcement. I also mention using it when out in remote places to hunt food.

I do not speak of carrying a pistol around town ready to shoot anyone and everyone.

I just mention it because your last post assumes carrying a gun around town and shooting friends you lent your boat to. I want the post to retain clarity, in that this *is* a boat related topic and not about carrying a pistol. I'm talking shotguns in my case. Hardly something you can carry around town without being killed by police.

[Connemara]

Sean:

Excellent addition, since the thread DID get rather off topic.

Was out at the chandler's this week (Boxing Week Sale) and picked up new flares, including a flare gun.

My guess is that in most situations where having a firearm would not make things worse a flare gun would do just as well -- for instance, to scare off a single, unarmed, burglar trying to get on to your boat. If yer being boarded by South Seas pirates, they're probably going to be bearing arms that have much more firepower than you do, so having a shotgun (or flare gun) would likely do no good.

And the flare gun is legal everywhere, looks pretty intimidating, especially in the dark, and could probably cause a little bit of damage if needed.

Connemara

[DeepFrz]

Sean, the point I was trying to make, howvever badly, is that our own peace and security, for the most part, comes from within ourselves. We can be frightened into thinking that we live in an incredably violent world and that "yesterday" was so much more peaceful. This type of thinking leads to the mind set that we need to start carrying weapons to defend ourselves, which IMHO, leads to an escalation of violence.

My posting was not just in response to your original post but to the thread in general. My question "should I have shot him?" was in response to someone elses statement about defending their "things" and was meant as a bit of humor. My statement may have been a little over the top, but was meant to point out the (IMHO) natural escalation of violence when frightened people are armed.

[GordMay]

Connemara:
What makes you think that the Flare Gun is legal everywhere?

[rleslie]

I often wonder why the real issue related to crime in the US is not talked about. The thread was started by referencing two mall shootings in NC.. I live in NC and I am familiar with both malls. If you are of eastern european decent, you do NOT go to these malls. The prison population was mentioned....who makes up the majority (69%) of the US prison population?

Sorry to be so "un-politically correct", but we should stop discussing crime in this country and what generates the need to carry a weapon unless we are willing to talk about the real issues.

Any takers?

[Connemara]

Originally Posted by GordMay

Connemara:
What makes you think that the Flare Gun is legal everywhere?

Not?

Enlighten me.

[cat man do]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Not?

Enlighten me.

Can't have flare gun's in Australia













This is as good as it get's here, single shot rocket [night], hand held smoke [Day Orange] and hand held red [Night], also a handheld white [ collision].

We definetly need to change our ways down here, as far as marine safety.

Super tough to get gun's is still a good thing

Dave

[David_Old_Jersey]

Originally Posted by Connemara

Not?

Enlighten me.

Not in England - need some sort of firearms certificate and they don't hand gun licences out like they do "elsewhere"

Here in Jersey? Not sure. ........but easy enough to get an actual gun licence here - big story here last year was that in addition to the 25,000 guns here (pop 80/90,000) that this included plenty of seriously heavy calibre stuff, that even Rambo couldn't carry

Quite legal to have a Napoleonic era muzzle loading musket in France though - no licence or registration required. (A mate does re-enactments travelling both in France and throughout Europe - he is half french though, so not too bothered about cross border regulations ).....not sure if this will help anyone???


But in answer to the question in the thread "Possible Insight Into Why Americans Want to Carry Guns".........I think it's just cos' they like shooting people. No offence meant.

[Connemara]

Wow! Who knew? Legal in Canada, though. Just bought one yesterday to replace a set of flares that were out of date yonks ago.

Connemara

[btrayfors]

Hmmm...


Lets see...

Canada has a population of 32,786,446 people and an area totaling
9,984,670 sq km. That's about 3.3 persons per square kilometer.

The U.S. has a population almost 10 times that, 300,872,460, and an area totaling 9,631,420 SQ KM, a bit less than Canada. That's about 31.2 persons per square kilometer, or about 10 times the population density of Canada.

Wonder if that might have some effect on crime, quite apart from figuring inner-city problems, poverty, ignorance (yeah, we're a very uneducated bunch), access to guns, violence on TV, ghastly summer weather, illegal immigrants by the tens of millions, Rambo cops, violence on TV, gangster rap, the "me, now generation", an ever widening gap between the poor and the rich, poor political leadership, teeming and overflowing jails, drugs, a crumbling public health care system, and all the other factors which have been linked to violent crime?

One good thing: our country, like Canada, is VAST and crime isn't happening everywhere. One can live and work and travel this land for many, many years without directly being affected. And, with some intelligence and modest accommodation, one can increase those "blessed" years by avoiding high crime areas and by self preparation.

Most folks carrying a weapon shouldn't. They don't have the training, preparation, reflexes, judgment, or mindset necessary to use one effectively. For those (few) that do, and who expect to be "exposed" to the risk of bodily harm, carrying a weapon might be reasonable.

Just MHO,

Bill

[DeepFrz]

That's about 3.3 persons per square kilometer.

Bill, I don't think it works quite that way <gr> (but I wonder about all those sq. kilometers that have .1 of a person...must hurt a lot)

Bill Trayfors said:

Most folks carrying a weapon shouldn't. They don't have the training, preparation, reflexes, judgment, or mindset necessary to use one effectively.

I agree completely. There was an excellent article in "Passagemaker" a few years ago (Winter 1999), written by Gary Stubblefield and Bill Parlatore called "Condition Yellow". I would urge any cruisers who are considering carrying weapons on board to read this article. And in case you are wondering if it is out of date because it was written before 911, it isn't.

Deep

[David_Old_Jersey]

Ok, lets work this out............

Jersey = 45 sq miles (Google says = 116 sq KM) and 90,000 peeps.

My calculator says that is 775 peeps per sq Kilometre (or 2,000 peeps per sq mile)..........No Skyscrapers here and their are "empty" places here, albeit no prairies


Must be time to go out and shoot some folk and make a bit more room

[GordMay]

For those, like Connemara, interested in the legal aspects of cruising with firearms (which includes flares in some jurisdictions), there is a little information at:

http://www.cruisersforum.com/forums/...ations+Country

HTH,
Gord May