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Old 02-07-2016, 06:04   #16
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
This is not correct in either the Britain or Australia. I'm supposing it might be different there.
Ahem. Just a couple of examples:
Negligently - NSW RTA Sec 117 (1) (a),
Recklessly - NSW Crimes Act Sec 35 (2)
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:14   #17
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Re: Yann trial over

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Ahem. Just a couple of examples:
Negligently - NSW RTA Sec 117 (1) (a),
Recklessly - NSW Crimes Act Sec 35 (2)
Na, you can't do that Stu, look up what required reach a verdict of GbH!
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:16   #18
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
I'm not claiming anything -- I'm not the prosecutor.

But the facts, from what we can see, look quite bad for the skipper -- quite reckless and aggressive behavior, which resulted in a person losing a leg.
I don't understand the race rules enough and I can't find much about the protection case of why he was prosecuted in the first place. I've watched the video. I can't see what he did wrong, yet alone what he did wrong the point of being criminally responsible. What do you see that I'm missing?
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:17   #19
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Ahem. Just a couple of examples:
Negligently - NSW RTA Sec 117 (1) (a),
Recklessly - NSW Crimes Act Sec 35 (2)
Stu, it's a mistake to argue with a cop about such things

"Deliberate act" is indeed an element of GBH -- Rustic is right. But recklessness is something which flows from a deliberate act, for purposes of establishing the elements of GBH. It's complicated.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:18   #20
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Na, you can't do that Stu, look up what required reach a verdict of GbH!
Oh, I have - in detail. In my past life, I was Defending Officer in a Court Martial involving a charge of GBH. I got him acquitted.

(I also spent a few years writing and marking promotion exams for PNG police - and PNG Law is based on Australian Law.)
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:39   #21
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
I don't understand the race rules enough and I can't find much about the protection case of why he was prosecuted in the first place. I've watched the video. I can't see what he did wrong, yet alone what he did wrong the point of being criminally responsible. What do you see that I'm missing?
Well, read this:

https://sailinganarchy.com/tag/spindrift-2/

By all accounts he just plowed into a group of marshal boats at 20 knots.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:41   #22
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Re: Yann trial over

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Stu, it's a mistake to argue with a cop about such things

"Deliberate act" is indeed an element of GBH -- Rustic is right. But recklessness is something which flows from a deliberate act, for purposes of establishing the elements of GBH. It's complicated.
Ex cop 😳 Ex
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:44   #23
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Re: Yann trial over

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Oh, I have - in detail. In my past life, I was Defending Officer in a Court Martial involving a charge of GBH. I got him acquitted.

(I also spent a few years writing and marking promotion exams for PNG police - and PNG Law is based on Australian Law.)
No, I mean you can't talk about GBH but then go to definitions of 'reckless' and 'negligent'.
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Old 02-07-2016, 06:52   #24
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Dockhead View Post
Well, read this:

https://sailinganarchy.com/tag/spindrift-2/

By all accounts he just plowed into a group of marshal boats at 20 knots.
Well, I guess we will just have to wait for the verdict.

But in comparison, it's seems to me to not be a lot different to rally cars that loose control and run in to marshals.
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Old 02-07-2016, 07:15   #25
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Very unusual for the courts to get involved in any race
Just read up on the incident. This is not a case of the courts getting involved in a race.

It was a non-competing mutihull boat "grandstanding" close to the press boats before the start of a monohull race.

From what I've seen it was reckless behaviour to say the least.
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Old 02-07-2016, 12:10   #26
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by StuM View Post
Just read up on the incident. This is not a case of the courts getting involved in a race.

It was a non-competing mutihull boat "grandstanding" close to the press boats before the start of a monohull race.

From what I've seen it was reckless behaviour to say the least.
It is true BP was not in the race. By "grandstanding" I assume you mean sailing fast, perhaps too fast for the conditions. On the other hand BP was not the only spectator boat viewing the race. There was a "no go" zone close to the start line set aside for inflatables carrying race officials and BP came close to it and by some accounts entered it. There were at least two ~50 foot power boats carrying spectators and one came close to crossing BP's bow at which point BP changed course. The inflatable that was hit also changed course just before the accident. That inflatable contained a race official and the woman who lost her leg was the race officials/inflatable driver's wife who had no other connection with the race. I sail a medium size cat and have an inflatable as well. There is no way my cat, or an even larger multihull like BP could hit my inflatable if I was driving and did not want to be hit. I only have a 9.9 Yamaha on my inflatable while the race official's inflatable had a 50HP outboard.

As a rule a boat under sail has the right of way over a power boat and the most burdened boat, in this case a 100 ft sailing multihull, has the right of way over the least burdened boat, in this case an inflatable with a big outboard to keep up with somewhat fast sailboats. Of course race officials have special right of way close to the start of a race and during the race.

The thing is in most accidents like this one blame is apportioned as a percent, not a 100% fault to one or the other. Also keep in mind France uses the Napoleonic Code, not an English Common Law system.

Bottom line is both BP and the race official's boat failed to keep an adequate look out and both share some of the blame. BP was sailing very fast in a some what crowded area and the race official seemed distracted and had passengers in the inflatable unrelated to the race.

As for the case being over it has been clear for quite some time Donna would pay the bills and that would be the end of it. Once she settled with the unfortunate woman who lost her leg the rest was a formality.
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Old 02-07-2016, 15:04   #27
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by tomfl View Post
It is true BP was not in the race. By "grandstanding" I assume you mean sailing fast, perhaps too fast for the conditions. On the other hand BP was not the only spectator boat viewing the race. There was a "no go" zone close to the start line set aside for inflatables carrying race officials and BP came close to it and by some accounts entered it. There were at least two ~50 foot power boats carrying spectators and one came close to crossing BP's bow at which point BP changed course. The inflatable that was hit also changed course just before the accident. That inflatable contained a race official and the woman who lost her leg was the race officials/inflatable driver's wife who had no other connection with the race. I sail a medium size cat and have an inflatable as well. There is no way my cat, or an even larger multihull like BP could hit my inflatable if I was driving and did not want to be hit. I only have a 9.9 Yamaha on my inflatable while the race official's inflatable had a 50HP outboard.

As a rule a boat under sail has the right of way over a power boat and the most burdened boat, in this case a 100 ft sailing multihull, has the right of way over the least burdened boat, in this case an inflatable with a big outboard to keep up with somewhat fast sailboats. Of course race officials have special right of way close to the start of a race and during the race.

The thing is in most accidents like this one blame is apportioned as a percent, not a 100% fault to one or the other. Also keep in mind France uses the Napoleonic Code, not an English Common Law system.

Bottom line is both BP and the race official's boat failed to keep an adequate look out and both share some of the blame. BP was sailing very fast in a some what crowded area and the race official seemed distracted and had passengers in the inflatable unrelated to the race.

As for the case being over it has been clear for quite some time Donna would pay the bills and that would be the end of it. Once she settled with the unfortunate woman who lost her leg the rest was a formality.
Tom, thanks for your input. But I think your missing the point of what we are discussing. This is beyond a civil case of costs. It's clearly gone to a criminal trial. He's possibly looking even at prison.
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Old 02-07-2016, 16:01   #28
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Re: Yann trial over

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Originally Posted by Rustic Charm View Post
Tom, thanks for your input. But I think your missing the point of what we are discussing. This is beyond a civil case of costs. It's clearly gone to a criminal trial. He's possibly looking even at prison.
Part of my input was this case is being tried under Napoleonic Code, not English Common Law. What would be similar to a prosecuting attorney under English Common Law has recommended a suspended sentence. While it is possible for a judge to over rule this recommendation and impose a a harsher punishment I would not be holding my breath for this to happen.

Not to mention Donna still casts a large shadow over the whole mess.
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Old 14-07-2016, 06:40   #29
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Re: Yann trial over

Update:

The skipper was convicted and sentenced to a six month suspended sentence for a deliberate violation of the duties of safety and prudence, as well as for endangering the lives of other people. In the US I think this most closely matches our ideas of reckless endangerment.
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Old 15-07-2016, 17:29   #30
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Re: Yann trial over

It makes me wonder; what if it was a 60, 100 foot, what ever it is, power cruiser zipping around turning this way and that with speeds varying from 5 to 15 knots inside of 30 seconds. Would those who have given him some slack be so lenient? A power cruiser would certainly have more control over collision avoidance with rudders or full reverse and no worry about the death zone, (multihull trouble), if a sudden avoidance maneuver dictated turning down wind. This cowboy pisses me off and now a woman has to live without a leg for the rest of her life. Eye for and eye?
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