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Old 21-09-2011, 22:26   #1
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Yanmar Saildrive Issues

I hope someone out there can help. A line got caught around my prop. we where able to get what was visible cut of and the prop engaged WE SAILED from beaufort to charleston and now when you go to put it in gear the prop does not turn. any suggestions?? We are in Charleston SC and don't know anyone here. any recommendations for repairs we are sailing a catamaran with a 21 ft beam. lagoon 380.

also the B&G autopilot quit. let me be more precise. it won't hold a course and the diplay " rud drive" comes up. any help on either issue is appreciated.
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Old 22-09-2011, 06:10   #2
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

Sounds like you may have some line wedged in the slot in front of the prop. Are you sure you got it all out? It doesn't take much to jam it. Been there, and done that.......i2f
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Old 22-09-2011, 07:21   #3
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

Regarding the autopilot. Rudder drive error means that the computer unit is not getting any feedback from the ram when it asks it to move. There can be a few reasons (all have happened to our B&G pilot over the years):

1. The clutch is not engaging. The clutch is engaged by a solenoid on the side of the ram housing (will be either a blue cylinder or a black square). Engage the autopilot from the control head and see if the wheel still turns by hand. If it does, then the solenoid needs replacing. A more conclusive test is to put the unit in "Power" mode and see if you can make the rudder turn using the +/-10* dodge buttons.

2. The ram is low on hydraulic fluid or has air in it. The shaft seal wears over time and either leaks fluid or takes in air. Look at where the shaft exits the ram housing and see if there is any fluid leaking. The shaft should also be dry and not covered with fluid. If you have a leak, either take it to a hydraulic shop and have new seals put in or just change the oil in it. We have done both - changing the oil stopped the leak for 6 months until we could get it to a shop. The oil gets particles in it from the seals wearing over the past 13 years and the particles get under the seals and allow leaks/air. New oil seemed to have cleared that up and the seals resealed themselves. This was also the case for a friend's B&G ram.

3. The rudder feedback sensor is not working correctly. Do you see the rudder position indicator change on the display when you move the wheel? If not, the feedback sensor is suspect.

Mark
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Old 22-09-2011, 15:31   #4
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

I checked all that, the solenoid is working, the pump has voltage to it but is not working, when you set the autopilot you cannot turn the wheel. there is not hydraulic fluid leaking that I can see. I think it may be the hydraulic motor. and I stand corrected the linear drive unit is not B&G it is some french manufacturer that lagoon installed when built. since it is 11 years old should I just install a whole new hydraulic linear drive steering system?? or can I install just any other manufacturers hydraulic pump and motor on the existing linear drive??
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Old 22-09-2011, 15:56   #5
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdisarro View Post
I checked all that, the solenoid is working, the pump has voltage to it but is not working, when you set the autopilot you cannot turn the wheel. there is not hydraulic fluid leaking that I can see. I think it may be the hydraulic motor. and I stand corrected the linear drive unit is not B&G it is some french manufacturer that lagoon installed when built. since it is 11 years old should I just install a whole new hydraulic linear drive steering system?? or can I install just any other manufacturers hydraulic pump and motor on the existing linear drive??
Don't be a parts replacer. Find the problem first, even if you have to hire someone to find it. I am sure with some patience someone here will help you........i2f
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Old 22-09-2011, 16:43   #6
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

I got a fishing line tangled in my Yanmar saildrive while in the Caribbean, it was my own line - seperate story. It took me two hours of cutting and pulling out the line before I could even turn the prop. Four months later when I hauled the boat and pulled the prop there was still reminents of the line in the space betwen the prop and the lower drive even after motoring for 500 hours up the ICW. You probably have line wedged between the prop and lower drive which may only be removed when the prop is pulled. If you have dive equip. you could possibly do the job without hauling.
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Old 22-09-2011, 21:42   #7
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdisarro View Post
I checked all that, the solenoid is working, the pump has voltage to it but is not working, when you set the autopilot you cannot turn the wheel. there is not hydraulic fluid leaking that I can see. I think it may be the hydraulic motor. and I stand corrected the linear drive unit is not B&G it is some french manufacturer that lagoon installed when built. since it is 11 years old should I just install a whole new hydraulic linear drive steering system?? or can I install just any other manufacturers hydraulic pump and motor on the existing linear drive??
Oops, I forgot one other problem that would cause your issue (and we have experienced). Worn motor brushes. Check the brushes for wear. On ours, the brush holders had stops built into them that would not let the brushes travel further than ~3/16" from the end of the brush. So even though there was still some brush left, the stops kept them from contacting the commutator.

Also, did you check the rudder feedback unit? If that is bad, the pilot will also give a rudder error.

Again, set the pilot control to "Power" mode and see if the ram moves when the 10* dodge buttons are pushed. Can you hear the motor trying to turn when operating?

Hydraulic linear rams are pretty simple, straightforward and easily and cheaply repaired. Any commercial hydraulic shop can fix most any problem much cheaper than the original manufacturer. I wouldn't spend the money on a new one unless you got a diagnosis that yours has completely gone tango uniform (and that would take something completely catastrophic).

In general, these drives are just a combination of standard motor, pump and ram with a particular manufacturer's paint and badge, so you can replace any component with suitable substitutes - particularly if yours is a component system and not an integrated all-in-one, like the B&G linear drive.

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Old 23-09-2011, 15:36   #8
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

When you removed the line from the prop would the prop free spin? If a line has it wedged it should not move engaged or not. Does the engine start and run in neutral? Did you try reverse? sometimes reversing will ease the wedge, Have you been in the water with a mask to see if line is wedged between the case and prop? In neutral the prop should turn freely.

Good Luck
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Old 24-09-2011, 06:16   #9
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

The motor unit is from france, The original from lagoon. I guess I could call them to see if they have replacement brushes. If I call Lagoon can they help, will they?? I know there was power to the motor so it makes sense it is either the motor or brushes, That is if this particular motor has brushes. I will wait to see what the boatyard diagnosis is first, I will let you know what they say. How long due motors last anyway? and when they do go can they be rebuilt or refurbished? new windings??? When you say suitable substitutes are motor/pump assemblies all uniform for hookup, it looks like they all have 3 hydraulic lines going to the drive unit.
- Show quoted text -

On Thu, Sep 22, 2011 at 11:42 PM, Cruisers & Sailing Forums <support@cruisersforum.com> wrote:
Dear jdisarro,
colemj has just replied to a thread you have subscribed to entitled - Yanmar Saildrive Issues - in the Multihull Sailboats forum of Cruisers & Sailing Forums.

This thread is located at:
Yanmar Saildrive Issues - Cruisers & Sailing Forums
Here is the message that has just been posted:
***************
---Quote (Originally by jdisarro)---
I checked all that, the solenoid is working, the pump has voltage to it but is not working, when you set the autopilot you cannot turn the wheel. there is not hydraulic fluid leaking that I can see. I think it may be the hydraulic motor. and I stand corrected the linear drive unit is not B&G it is some french manufacturer that lagoon installed when built. since it is 11 years old should I just install a whole new hydraulic linear drive steering system?? or can I install just any other manufacturers hydraulic pump and motor on the existing linear drive??
---End Quote---
Oops, I forgot one other problem that would cause your issue (and we have experienced). Worn motor brushes. Check the brushes for wear. On ours, the brush holders had stops built into them that would not let the brushes travel further than ~3/16" from the end of the brush. So even though there was still some brush left, the stops kept them from contacting the commutator.
Also, did you check the rudder feedback unit? If that is bad, the pilot will also give a rudder error.
Again, set the pilot control to "Power" mode and see if the ram moves when the 10* dodge buttons are pushed. Can you hear the motor trying to turn when operating?
Hydraulic linear rams are pretty simple, straightforward and easily and cheaply repaired. Any commercial hydraulic shop can fix most any problem much cheaper than the original manufacturer. I wouldn't spend the money on a new one unless you got a diagnosis that yours has completely gone tango uniform (and that would take something completely catastrophic).
In general, these drives are just a combination of standard motor, pump and ram with a particular manufacturer's paint and badge, so you can replace any component with suitable substitutes - particularly if yours is a component system and not an integrated all-in-one, like the B&G linear drive.
Mark
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Old 24-09-2011, 12:42   #10
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Re: Yanmar Saildrive Issues

Quote:
Originally Posted by jdisarro View Post
I hope someone out there can help. A line got caught around my prop. we where able to get what was visible cut of and the prop engaged WE SAILED from beaufort to charleston and now when you go to put it in gear the prop does not turn. any suggestions?? We are in Charleston SC and don't know anyone here. any recommendations for repairs we are sailing a catamaran with a 21 ft beam. lagoon 380.

also the B&G autopilot quit. let me be more precise. it won't hold a course and the diplay " rud drive" comes up. any help on either issue is appreciated.

I agree that the brushes are worth checking while they're on your mind even if they aren't the issue. We had similar AP problems on our last passage because of worn brushes on our B&G pilot. Somehow they weren't on the maintenance check list. The brushes on ours were not intended to be user serviceable so checking and replacing them involved breaking open the motor and messing with solder joints. Not really a seaworthy feature IMHO.

When you put the engine in gear I gather it doesn't stall. If the issue is line jamming the prop I wouldn't expect the engine to run normally in gear. Two things I would check first. One, there is probably a rubber core in the propeller hub and it might have broken loose allowing the prop to spin on the shaft. If you can spin the prop by hand with the motor off but in gear its the prop. Two, it might be that the shaft has been pulled aft so that its gears are not engaging inside the sail drive unit or broken something inside the unit. I'm not exactly sure how I'd check that in the water. Possibly if the engine is in gear but off and disabled you could see if you can turn the propeller nut... Is there water in the gear oil?

Oh yeah, if the hub is busted depending on the design and where it broke the prop blades and metal outer hub could fall off the inner rubber hub... Happened to me in Apia which was annoying and expensive. So, if it were me I'd get in the water and inspect the prop as best I could.

Good luck!

Tom.
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