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Old 24-07-2015, 01:09   #16
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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Metal Forever! Russ
You are talking about monohulls, the OP was asking about catamarans!
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Old 24-07-2015, 13:14   #17
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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Originally Posted by amalam85 View Post
My partner and I are looking into buying a catamaran sailboat. And our first thought is what would be safer, stronger, more affordable, better cruising etc.
1) In order to have safe-strong-affordable-etc catamaran I personally would suggest You to switch from "buying one" to "building Yours". This is the way You will own right boat, IMHO.

2) Good (repeat: good) plastic is a good choise for those, who has no experience in boat ownership.

3) State boat size, her required speed and Your budget to a community and You will have very quick answer on what Your material choice should be.

Good luck!
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Old 24-07-2015, 14:26   #18
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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Read the posts and you're getting lot of mis-information.

FG is fine BUT aluminum much better. Never has blisters and ALL FG boats do eventually, that's why no one offers a lifetime blister guarantee. Al fittings never leak or come loose like FG chain plates, assuming they are all welded to the hull as they should be.
Al is as light as anything else, the insulation which must be done below the water line is light. You NEVER paint Al unless you like to paint. You let it age and get the Al patina. Only the bottom gets bottom paint which sticks just fine IF you prep the hull as it should be, the deck is best covered with non skid like Tredmaster.

I own steel and the ONLY draw back to AL is electrolysis which is why Al must have an isolation transformer ( Not a galvanic isolater).

Why does Jimmy Cornell sail a mono from Alubat OVNI (France). By the by most boats in Europe are METAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Metal Forever! Russ
To be perfectly honest I can't find one factual claim in this post.
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Old 25-07-2015, 01:06   #19
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Post Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

Chris White's opinion -

Can I get an Atlantic Cat in aluminum?

Metal has it's advantages and I have looked at this in detail. The major drawback to aluminum use in a cat is weight. Metal, anyway you slice it, adds considerable additional weight compared to epoxy composite. The typical 3mm aluminum hull plating with frames and stringers at the required intervals weighs about 50% more per unit area than foam/glass/epoxy. THEN if you want a true equivalent you need to insulate the aluminum hull and deck for thermal and sound and then cover the insulation for looks which adds another big chunk of weight. If it is to be painted outside aluminum normally requires lots of fairing putty- still more weight. At the end of it all you have a boat that sinks unless you add special provisions- even more weight.

(From his website - Atlantic Catamaran FAQ - by Chris White Designs )
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Old 27-07-2015, 14:09   #20
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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Why does Jimmy Cornell sail a mono from Alubat OVNI (France).
I dunno, cause he doesn't.

I will grant you he has a Aluminium boat - but it isnt an ONVI.
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Old 27-07-2015, 16:14   #21
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

We owned a 25 Sea ARk Ram Commander aluminum Rib, New this was a 150k boat, (we didnt buy uit new) Electrolysis reeked havoc on it, and its sister ship causing another to founder offshore when many welds failed and it came apart. We have met 2 others on large aluminum sailboats and they seemed worn out over replacing zincs and having patches welded over holes here and there, they were both French made monos. I wouldnt own an aluminum boat ever again, and definitly wouldnt want a cat made out of it.
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Old 27-07-2015, 23:39   #22
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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I dunno, cause he doesn't.

I will grant you he has a Aluminium boat - but it isnt an ONVI.
I think he has owned two aluminium Ovnis, but his latest boat is an aluminium Garcia (Exploration 45). Garcia has always been a rival of Ovni. Both companies produce aluminium lifting keel yachts.

Garcia is the more upmarket of the two companies producing more expensive round (vs hard chined) hulls with much more customisation and a higher standard of fit out, although the market is now very blurred with the take over of many of builders.
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Old 27-07-2015, 23:51   #23
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

When I was building fibreglass composite yachts the Ally boats were mockingly known as aspirins. Nuff said.
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Old 28-07-2015, 00:48   #24
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

Hi

Most of the sunreef catamarans

http://m.sunreef-yachts.com/launched-yachts.html

Are made of aluminum, as well as most of the large one-off monohulls ( sail or motors ) built by the top end Netherlands yacht builders , for instance here:

http://www.vitters.com

As well as most of the large passengers motor multihulls.

Aluminum cannot be competitive with large series multihulls built out of re-usable tooling, but will be cheaper than one off composite as no mold is needed. ( above 16m, a single hull of an aluminum multihull is cheaper than the cost of a mold only, not to mention a complete composite hull made out of a single use mold).

Above 16m aluminum is also lighter than fiberglass ( but obviously heavier than cored composite)

Aluminum is more or less mandatory if you are sailing in iceberg region and aluminum will take a pounding on a reef/rock much better than a cored hull making it the better choice if you sail in unchartered zones,

So the general equation may look like: no money worries, sailing in well known waters ( Caribbean ) go carbon and buy/ build a gunboat ( or its cousin).
Reasonable budget, no real need for custom, buy a large series cat ( outremer for speed, lagoon for comfort etc )
You want a large ( above 15m) highly customized multihull , you sail in problematic areas, you may want to discuss aluminum with your architect.

All the above with the usual "imho" caveat.



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Old 28-07-2015, 06:35   #25
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

I don't think most Sunreefs are aluminum, Kowloon. I looked at their site and they seem to mostly be all composite and they have the "carbon" models too. On Yachtworld there is one alu SR but 22 fg boats for sale. Maybe alu is just custom?
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Old 28-07-2015, 08:32   #26
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

@Sandcrab

I am under the impression that Sunreef started as an all aluminum shipyard and later added composite superstructure, to finally add a carbon line of a very different gunboatish design.

They, on purpose, do not detail their construction method, but some of the hulls called "composite " on their web site is actually alu hull and cored fiberglass superstructure, a direction also taken by many one-off builders.

Here is their take on aluminum :

"Aluminum materials
For the production of aluminum hulls, superstructures and other yacht equipment, we use widely known and highly appreciated types of aluminum alloy such as SealiumŪ and AlustarŪ among others which have become the international industry standard for large cruising yachts. These types of alloy optimise the overall performance of vessels in general as they make them more robust, safer, and user-friendly.

SealiumŪ and/or AlustarŪ alloy advantages:
- Higher welded yield strength than standard 5083 alloy
- Proven improved corrosion resistance
- Increased fatigue strength
- Same usage proprieties (formability and welding) than 5083 alloy

The characteristics of aluminium provide the best safety guarantee for the yacht:
- Rigidity : an aluminium hull is an extremely rigid object that does not suffer from
distortion caused by the ballast, the rigging or the sea state. This is the ultimate
guarantee of safety for your yacht and the durability of your hull and of its interior
fittings.
- The capacity of aluminium to absorb shocks without rupturing is one of the biggest
advantages of aluminium hulls in encounters with containers, tree trunks, etc.
- The density of aluminium (2.7) is low and offers the benefits of the other advantages
of aluminium without increasing the weight of the boat."


This being said, they have produced more than 60 large cats and are now at a stage where they have enough demand to justify moulds, in which case aluminum loses the economic war and you are very right to point out at an increasing number of full composite boats.

For a quick reference to the past this link

http://www.catamarans.com/news/2008/...nstruction.asp

points to the construction of their 102 in 2009, all aluminum.

So you were right to point out that the right formulation is probably that " a large number of past boats built by Sunreef and most of their present custom boats are built in aluminum "

Cheers








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Old 01-08-2015, 18:39   #27
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

No matter what the boat is made of, it'll be built to a certain strength.

The difference in material is, in a nutshell, the difference in weight required to reach that strength, and the cost.

Aluminium will be heavier than FRPs, and steel will be heavier again.

Cost goes in the inverse direction: steel is wonderfully cheap, aluminium is in the middle, and FRPs are most expensive.
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Old 01-08-2015, 19:09   #28
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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No matter what the boat is made of, it'll be built to a certain strength.

The difference in material is, in a nutshell, the difference in weight required to reach that strength, and the cost.

Aluminium will be heavier than FRPs, and steel will be heavier again.

Cost goes in the inverse direction: steel is wonderfully cheap, aluminium is in the middle, and FRPs are most expensive.
Don't forget wood composites
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Old 02-08-2015, 02:06   #29
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

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No matter what the boat is made of, it'll be built to a certain strength.

The difference in material is, in a nutshell, the difference in weight required to reach that strength, and the cost.

Aluminium will be heavier than FRPs, and steel will be heavier again.

Cost goes in the inverse direction: steel is wonderfully cheap, aluminium is in the middle, and FRPs are most expensive.
The strength is not equal in all areas. Metal boats have greater puncture resistance for example making them more likely to survive a grounding or collision with debris. This is why most yachts cruising ice prone areas are metal.

In terms of displacement, aluminium is the same sort of weight as fibreglass. A little lighter than solid fibreglass and a little heavier than cored structures, but it depends on the details. It is only when you get to exotic lay ups that the weight of fibreglass becomes less.

There are some qualifications. The thinnest aluminium that can be welded without distortion is about 4mm. This means that aluminium construction will be heavier if you use it to build anthing smaller than medium/large cat or medium monohull. The minimum plate thickness means some parts will be overbuilt and hence heavier on a smaller vessel.

In terms of cost aluminium is unfortunately the dearest material to build a boat from once again until you get to exotic hull lay ups.
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Old 02-08-2015, 21:26   #30
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Re: Would love to hear the cons and pros of ALUMINIUM vs FIBERGLASS catamaran Sailboa

For your interest;

This Australian company has a range of boats and plans in Aluminium based on Peter Kerrs boats. Aluminium or composite.

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